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Handle throw

pjirsapjirsa Posts: 29
edited April 2012 in Rules/Politics/Issues
Calling all senior judges: What are valid reasons you would accept for a skier to throw the handle before entering the course?
Is "My contact lenses were f'd up" a valid reason?

What are some other ones you've heard?


  • Chef23Chef23 Posts: 6,066 Mega Baller
    I had a huge clump of weeds on my wing once and tossed the handle. I was afraid I was going to hurt my self when I came up out of the water. I got a re-ride.
    Mark Shaffer
  • boarditupboarditup Posts: 585 Crazy Baller
    I had a knot in the rope once.
    Karl DeLooff - Powered by the wind
  • KelvinKelvin Posts: 1,283 Mega Baller
    I could feel perfect pass acting up on me.
    Kelvin Kelm, Lakes of Katy, Katy Texas
  • TriplettTriplett Posts: 209 Open or Level 9 Skier
    Skier supplied equipment is not subject to a re ride if I remember correctly. Please correct me if I am wrong. So this leaves the rope, lake, and boat being valid for tossing the handle. Contacts being f'ed up is not a valid reason, but you might find some pretty awesome judges at C tournaments.
    Brent Triplett - Michigan
  • Jody_SealJody_Seal Posts: 3,354 Mega Baller
    You can throw the handle for many reasons but it better be a good one and one that can be substantiated by either the boat judge or tower judges also will need evidence of foreign materials causing havoc. I got caight up in a whole bunch of weeds on my opening deep water start at Mulberry one year. I was covered head to binding with weeds I threw the handle right out in front of the 55's..... When the Boat cam back I asked for a re-ride? The boat judge said to me (Ready?) "Hope you enjoyed your salad!!!! and drove off to get the next skier. I left the weeds on me and marched up to the chief judge and produced my evidence......I got a re-ride and the judge got a reprimand from the chief judge!
    Hobby Boats can be expensive when the hobbyist is limited on their own skill and expertise.

  • crashmancrashman Posts: 722 Crazy Baller
    really- a judge would say that to you? aren't they fellow skiers also? I understand that in high school basketball you might get guys that still live at home with their moms or have small units or whatever that become refs just so that can be jerks but I'm surprised to hear this about skiing. Maybe it's good that I'm a ways off from having to worry about whether to become a part of organized skiing, because some of the posts here make it sound like it can be ugly at times.
    slalom addiction triggering irrational behavior
  • ForrestGumpForrestGump Posts: 6,231
    edited May 2012
    I certainly wouldn't be inclined to give a reride for contacts getting messed up. I've had mine get all wonky on me and I skied right through it. It's going to have to be a driver error, mechanical error, or something in the course or skier path IMO. Jody's weeds are something I would give a reride for. If it effects the skier, I'm all for it.
    Shane "Crash" Hill

  • liquid dliquid d Posts: 1,347 Mega Baller
    Jody, come on down to the Jewel for a couple rides....we've got plenty of hydrilla practice for you! cya
  • KelvinKelvin Posts: 1,283 Mega Baller
    From the 2012 AWSA Rulebook

    9.11 Handle Throws
    A contestant may refuse to enter the official jump course on any pass by throwing the handle in the air before the 180-meter (590') course entry buoy. He shall not be penalized for so doing, provided the refusal was for a reason acceptable to a majority of the Event Judges. The skier must be ready to ski immediately upon the boat’s return. Should the skier not be ready or should the reason for the handle throw not be acceptable, one pass shall be deemed as taken. (See Rule 9.15 regarding damaged equipment.)

    9.15 Damaged Equipment
    If a skier notices that his equipment is damaged after a handle throw, a pass or a jump, the event judges may grant him, upon immediate request, three minutes to repair or change the damaged equipment. The three-minute period should start upon the request being granted by the judges. If the skier is not ready to ski at the end of the three-minute period, he shall not be allowed to continue in that round.

    Triplett, "Skier supplied equipment is not subject to a re ride if I remember correctly. Please correct me if I am wrong. So this leaves the rope, lake, and boat being valid for tossing the handle. Contacts being f'ed up is not a valid reason, but you might find some pretty awesome judges at C tournaments." From the applicable rules, there are no such limitations on the valid reasons for a handle throw, in fact, damage to skier supplied equipment is explicitly stated in 9.15. That would include the ski, bindings, gloves, handle, contacts, etc.
    Kelvin Kelm, Lakes of Katy, Katy Texas
  • klindyklindy Posts: 2,664 ★★★Triple Panda Award Recipient ★★★
    I've heard them all in the years I've been in the boat. Generally though as others have said, there better be something known to more than just the skier. I would have granted Jody a reride if he was covered with weeds (note that one lone weed on the rope likely isn't enough). I've seen ducks in the pull out work, a dog trying to retrieve ball 5, a pontoon headed towards the course (public river). A "green glob just before the gates" didn't work when there was no evidence of anything (we checked). Knots also have worked as has damaged equipment (you have 3 minutes to fix it).

    For tricks, add boat speed not set and boat path to the list. As a judge in tricks, I always get the "ok" sign from the skier before entering the course. If the skier doesn't give me the OK sign they better be working hard to adjust the speed, boat level or something or I'm not likely to give them a second chance.
    Keith Lindemulder
    AWSA Chairman of the Board
    AWSA Southern Region EVP
  • ScarletArrowScarletArrow Posts: 823 Crazy Baller
    I got smashed in the eye by a giant bug once - could I claim that? (I didn't, even though I missed the pass.)
    Anthony Warren
  • unksskisunksskis Posts: 579 Crazy Baller
    Great feedback from a judge, thanks KLindy!
  • klindyklindy Posts: 2,664 ★★★Triple Panda Award Recipient ★★★
    @ScarletArrow - I make it a habit to watch as closely as I can. If something looks strange (you flinch, grab your eye/head/whatever) and miss the pass there's a high likelihood I'll ask "everything ok"? If you reply "yep" we move on....anything else and we'll sort it out. If something clearly is out of place, I'll initiate a reride myself. It's important that the competition is fair to ALL skiers....that means everyone gets as fair a ride as possible given things we can reasonably control. Remember it's also important (and unfair) to all the other skiers that a reride is really warranted. Point is, not everyone or everything gets a reride, but if it's fundementally unfair, then it's important to make it right.

    Also, remember, if that bug that smashed you in the eye happened BEFORE you enter the course, you can throw the handle and make your legitimate request. Once you're in the course, the standard essentially goes up in that it better be obvious.

    Incidentally, I've seen multiple rerides granted for boat path (both hard side and easy side) in the last couple years at high end tournaments. This has been for passed both completed and those missed. They've been initiated by the boat judge, driver, TC monitoring the video and the chief judge. My point is, agree or not, officials work really hard to make things as fair and equitable as possible AND, while shooting for actuals (times, path, etc.), working hard to give every competitor the best opportunity to ski their best.

    @unksskis - no problem...participating as a skier or official is just as important to me. I'm sure that's also true for the vast majority.....
    Keith Lindemulder
    AWSA Chairman of the Board
    AWSA Southern Region EVP
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