Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!

______________
12" White Stickers
______________
BallOfSpray $5 Donation
______________
BallOfSpray $10 Donation

Finally figured out why I lose the connection between my core and the handle.......

ForrestGumpForrestGump Posts: 6,136
edited May 2012 in Technique & Theory
.....behind the boat on my harder passes. It's not what I'm doing behind the boat. It is actually starting at the previous buoy. If I get seperation of the handle behind the boat, I almost always threw the handle out at the previous buoy. It just all of a sudden came to me the other day. So fixing one thing will really fix two things.
Shane "Crash" Hill

Than_Bogan

Comments

  • skinutskinut Posts: 431 Solid Baller
    I have learned to look at skiing that way. It is always what you did before that causes the problem that you are having. I guess that why everything seems to always lead back to your gate approach.
  • ForrestGumpForrestGump Posts: 6,136
    Maybe I need to look at my deep water starts. ;)
    Shane "Crash" Hill

    Onside135ToddL
  • GloersenGloersen Posts: 1,030 Mega Baller
    edited May 2012
    @Shane; agree!

    The Connection needs to begin out wide at the hook-up, BEFORE the load.

    The tone of the pass is set with that focus on the initial Connection in the stance prior to edge out, maintaining it through the edge-out to full width (preferably way up on the boat). Then re-establishing the Connection out wide when transitioning through the gates.

    Analogous to what @Horton describes as getting stacked out wide.

    So the obvious question, why are you "throwing out" the handle at the prior buoy? Loss of Connection of the trailing elbow through the 2nd wake into the pre-turn?
  • ForrestGumpForrestGump Posts: 6,136
    I can guarantee I'm wider than most anybody you'll see in the gate glide, as my ski partner/coach has always taught me to try and be pylon high like he is. I can't do that and maintain the correct speed yet, but I'm damn close.

    There's no reason to throw the handle out. I just seem to do it sometimes, even with a lot of space in front of the buoy, good width, good direction and connection in the preturn. It's one of the habits I never broke as a long liner which is now starting to rear it's head as I'm making my way into 38.
    Shane "Crash" Hill

  • blockblock Posts: 172 Baller
    What Gloersen said! I find that if I don't stay connected on the turn in at the Gates I get back footed and cannot stay connected into and out of #1. I feel like the back foot position keeps you from bringing the trailing hip foward as you cross the wake. The result of this is that you get no separation or outbound direction, no counter, and no connection out of the buoy . What you do get is downcourse speed and more backfooted.

    Johnny
    !
    John Seiler
  • ForrestGumpForrestGump Posts: 6,136
    In my case, that's not where it's starting. I am well connected at the turn in and outbound off the 2nd wake into 1. It's typically not even at 1 that I have issue, but down the pass as I get antsy. I'll be going out with the handle in and I'l throw the handle toward the boat at the same time as the ski starts to transition out from under me, losing all line tension and support of the rope.
    Shane "Crash" Hill

  • blockblock Posts: 172 Baller
    I do that too, its a very habit to break.
    John Seiler
  • Texas6Texas6 Posts: 2,197
    @Shane, tell me more about you and your coach's "pylon high" theory through the gates? Inquiring minds
    Daryn Dean - Lakes of Katy, TX
    ***Robbed out of Hundreds of Panda Worthy Posts***
  • ForrestGumpForrestGump Posts: 6,136
    edited May 2012
    Daryn, Have you ever seen Charles ski at any of the tournaments around Houston? At all line lengths he is as wide as you can get and up to the front of the motor box and to the pylon in his gate glide. He's perfectly matched to the boat speed and doesn't fall back. His theory is if he starts from there, he can turn in more progressively and be able to cover more distance by the time he gets to centerline. Plus he can take more angle to centerline which allows a better line to 1 with better control of ski speed at 1. He was getting the feel for it back when he started running into 41 last year. Then he changed it going after a little more speed in the glide but less width and he started going down at 39. So now he's back to his old wide gate. The problem is getting there with controlled speed. It's easy to get that wide and be 5mph faster than the boat and turn into slack and no boat. I've got it now where I'm motor box high and just moving back as I turn in. I asked him once how he gets that high on the boat and perfectly matches the speed. His reply was "Dude, it's like the sun rising. It just does." hahaha
    Shane "Crash" Hill

  • Texas6Texas6 Posts: 2,197
    Haa, nice! There isn't a whole lot of "it just does" in my skiing unfortunately, although I strive for it. But that makes a ton of sense actually. I'm usually too busy watching the buoy line during my pullout, but I do try and match the boat speed before turning in towards the gates. I'll try and reference the pylon to see how my current pullout aligns with it during my next set. Thx for the tip Shane!
    Daryn Dean - Lakes of Katy, TX
    ***Robbed out of Hundreds of Panda Worthy Posts***
  • 6balls6balls Posts: 5,466 Mega Baller
    Tell ya what, keeping the elbows pinned to your body after the second wake does really keep connection to the boat and provide width. Had a good time with this concept today.
    Dave Ross--die cancer die
  • crashmancrashman Posts: 722 Crazy Baller
    thought I had good connection... until I had somebody take video today. I ski a lot uglier than I thought I did.
    slalom addiction triggering irrational behavior
  • DustyDusty Posts: 315 Baller
    +1 for Shane's description. A friend has said "you can run -15 with a -35 gate, but you can't run -35 with a -15 gate" YMMV- but something to consider anyhow.
  • ForrestGumpForrestGump Posts: 6,136
    On the A2 I can feel the swing at 28. I couldn't feel that at 28 on the Mid Ride.
    Shane "Crash" Hill

  • Texas6Texas6 Posts: 2,197
    Shane, during my second set yesterday I took a look at the motor box and pylon instead of the usual buoy line. Much to my surprise, I'm not as high up as I thought I was (maybe the back of the motor box). Could have something to do with my crappy 32 gates. I really thought I was up higher than I was, indicating my point of reference may need to change. Great tip
    Daryn Dean - Lakes of Katy, TX
    ***Robbed out of Hundreds of Panda Worthy Posts***
  • Nick SullivanNick Sullivan Posts: 676 Baller
    Great thread, this is exactly what I think I am doing. I keep watching the video of CP that Horton posted on the new AM skis. I specifically was watching what he does with the handle while he is letting the ski role out from under him, releases the handle and then re-engage the line for the pull to the next ball. This is exactly what I think being stacked looks like when done correctly.

    When I start rushing my 28 or 32 I think I come off the handle too soon and then throw the handle out there at the ball and try and force the ski to turn by pushing my legs out stiff. This is all good stuff posted above and things I need to remember over and over to keep moving up that damn rope.
  • ForrestGumpForrestGump Posts: 6,136
    Daryn, What I'm finding is that to get wider without overspeed, I'm having to drop my hip off the side of the ski, angulating my lower body but not my upper as much. My old pullout was to lean out with my entire body angulated. But I guess that action drops the shoulder and creates a lot of line tension going out which gets magnified in the distance you have to cover to get really wide and high up on the boat.
    Shane "Crash" Hill

  • GloersenGloersen Posts: 1,030 Mega Baller
    In addition to the Connection some more recent corroborative reads from the Water Skier relative to the topic.

    New Beginnings

    Fluidity in Movement

    Making Moves
  • Texas6Texas6 Posts: 2,197
    @Shane, I've heard this before and have obviously watched the pros do it, but I never understood why (dropping the hip instead of the entire body). Your reasoning actuallly makes perfect sense. Parish is the only one I can picture who still obviously uses the entire body on the pull out. I'll give it a try
    Daryn Dean - Lakes of Katy, TX
    ***Robbed out of Hundreds of Panda Worthy Posts***
  • GloersenGloersen Posts: 1,030 Mega Baller
    edited May 2012
    Actually CP is initiating the edge out with his COM, maintaining the connection with his trailing elbow/hip, leading with the left hip, similar move to what has been described in the thread & articles, watch closely.

    Interesting to see how the Pros study the sport & evolve to stay on top of their game.



  • ForrestGumpForrestGump Posts: 6,136
    That video of CP is what made me decide to try that on my edge out this week and I'll be damn it really worked to control the speed in the glide. Also, it made it much easier to rise out of the pull out progressively, rather than be snapped up.
    Shane "Crash" Hill

  • Texas6Texas6 Posts: 2,197
    edited May 2012
    You're absolutely right, I stand corrected. That is a new gate for him. His old pullout is attached below. Now I'm even more anxious to try it....

    Daryn Dean - Lakes of Katy, TX
    ***Robbed out of Hundreds of Panda Worthy Posts***
  • ForrestGumpForrestGump Posts: 6,136
    Greg Badal called me today to talk about settings on the A2. He told me something that I think is very applicable to the discussion on the pullout and gate glide we're having here. He said if you find yourself consistently fast at the gate glide, then move the bindings forward. And if you start to fall back before the turn in point, then you need to move the bindings back.
    Shane "Crash" Hill

  • Texas6Texas6 Posts: 2,197
    That's a clever way to look at binding placement. What if you find yourself slow at times and fast at times:)...jk
    Daryn Dean - Lakes of Katy, TX
    ***Robbed out of Hundreds of Panda Worthy Posts***
  • Texas6Texas6 Posts: 2,197
    I took a set this morning and tried moving out bound for the pull out with my COM. My timing wasn't perfect, but I honestly had some of the best gates I've had all year at 28 and 32. Awesome tip Shane, thanks a million.
    Daryn Dean - Lakes of Katy, TX
    ***Robbed out of Hundreds of Panda Worthy Posts***
Sign In or Register to comment.