Need help with my 1 ball at 28

IlivetoskiIlivetoski Posts: 1,181 Crazy Baller
edited June 2012 in Technique & Theory
Everytime I go out at 28 I feel like I have to absolutly rip it around my 1 ball because im not losing enough speed for me to get comfortable to make a patient turn. What can I do to lose more speed coming into my 1 ball at 28?


  • MSMS Posts: 5,163 Mega Baller
    Dont bring too much speed on your pull through the gates. Start your pull in sooner and go slower.
    Shut up and ski
  • Than_BoganThan_Bogan Posts: 6,359 Mega Baller
    edited June 2012
    (I am assuming that -28 is a "reach" pass for you; if not this advice probably doesn't apply.)

    Take more angle through the gate, which probably requires pulling up higher and making sure you complete your turn-in before you load the line.

    As has been mentioned in several posts and articles here, speed isn't a bad thing. The feeling of "too much speed" usually comes from being on a non-ideal path through the course. If you take more angle through the gate, you may actually be going faster at 1, but because you are in the right place with the right speed, you'll *feel* much slower and under control and can easily take that speed right around the turn with you.

    Also, go read Brooks Wilson's recent article in The Waterskier ( Articles/Slalom/MakingMoves.pdf). It's a short article that really gets to the heart of the matter. Pay special attention to the part about carrying speed away from the boat.
    Nathaniel Bogan -- GUT Padawan
  • 6balls6balls Posts: 5,040 ★★★Triple Panda Award Recipient ★★★
    I'm with @MS and @than, make sure you are high enough up on the boat. At 28 off you should be well wide of the 2,4,6 in your glide. Start turn in sooner and go slower, then make sure to keep your handle as you go outbound so you don't transition up course narrow/fast. Should find yourself at very controlled speed with lots of width...relax and take the early line out of 1.
    Dave Ross--die cancer die
  • skihartskihart Posts: 482 Solid Baller
    Just what all these guys just said.....great advice. The only thing I would add that has helped me on my ball one's is holding onto the handle as long as you can with both hands before letting go. I start my reach with both hands on the handle stay on as long as I can then let go into my counter.....seems to work for me.
  • Razorskier1Razorskier1 Posts: 3,425 Mega Baller
    Like all of it. @OB makes a good point. I like to tell my son to "stay away from the one ball", which effectively means stay on the edge through the second wake, and keep your handle. If you visualize a point 20-30 feet before the one ball and think about skiing to that point, you will set up a nice controlled finish to the turn.
    Jim Ross
  • Chef23Chef23 Posts: 5,898 Mega Baller
    I use a similar point to @Razorskier1 and I tell my son to ski away from the balls. I think you have gotten a lot of good advice here and I would agree that you need to get much higher on the boat at the gates when I was learning 28 I was told by a coach to get uncomfortably wide. When I started doing that my 1 ball started being a lot earlier and felt slower. I am currently going through the same thing at 35 off.
    Mark Shaffer
  • thagerthager Posts: 4,445 Mega Baller
    edited June 2012
    Loosen shorts! Adjust.
    Stir vigorously then leave!
  • Than_BoganThan_Bogan Posts: 6,359 Mega Baller
    @chef23 And (as you know) I'm currently going through the same thing at -38.

    When learning each line length from -28 onward, you first have to re-discover how to get enough height on the boat and establish enough angle through the gate, and take that with you to the 1 ball (see OB/skiharts points).

    I hope in the near future to have the same problem again at -39! :)
    Nathaniel Bogan -- GUT Padawan
  • MSMS Posts: 5,163 Mega Baller
    Also, use the gate balls vs the bow of the boat to make a starting point for your pull in and use that each time at 28 and adjust as needed for -32-35..
    Shut up and ski
  • Stevie BoyStevie Boy Posts: 1,919 ★★★Triple Panda Award Recipient ★★★
    Agree with most of the advice, for me it changed when I turned in slower and took a little less angle, less speed, more chance of maintaining angle through the second wake, the other thinking behind it was not to get to your maximum arc/width to early, but to arrive within an envelope that you could deal with.
    Why try to get too much angle, which you are unlikely to maintain and probably create speed in the process, if you manage to overcome that you have then got to deal with reaching your maximum arc to early.
    Just My take on it.

    "Getting Harder/Getting Positive”

  • IlivetoskiIlivetoski Posts: 1,181 Crazy Baller
    This is all great, one question though. I have never really understood what people mean when they say "turn fully then load the line" for me all i do is lean back and get alot of leverage behind the boat. I dont really "pull" that much. So do you mean gradually get more leverage behind the boat? Then switch angles after the second wake, probably near the white wash?
  • Than_BoganThan_Bogan Posts: 6,359 Mega Baller
    More angle = earlier arrival.

    It's synonymous with "staying away from the buoy" or "riding the outbound arc" or "carrying speed away from the boat."

    Establishing the angle earlier means you can begin to decelerate earlier while still remaining on the optimal path. That leads to control over your speed.

    Fwiw, at one time I had tuned my style to a low angle and a late pull into one. This can be made to work, but at some point I realized it was holding me back and making -38 almost impossible.

    When you watch all the top skiers, they all take insane angle and then a crazy-early edge change. That isn't quite possible for us mortals, but I believe it's the direction we should all be aiming for.

    Another good reference on this, from someone with WAY more knowledge than I possess, can be found on the home page archives:
    Nathaniel Bogan -- GUT Padawan
  • Than_BoganThan_Bogan Posts: 6,359 Mega Baller
    edited June 2012
    @Ilivetoski That's something I've really struggled with, which either means I've got a lot of valuable exerience or I'm completely hopeless and have no idea how to do it!

    In case the former is the case:

    Once you start to load the ski, it's very, very hard to add more angle. The forces keeping the ski in its current track are quite large -- certainly a scrawny dude like me has no hope of increasing the angle under load.

    To NOT do that, it has to start with getting free of the boat on the pullout, so that you can complete a turn-in on your own terms before the rope loads very much. That's why getting high on the boat is the first step.

    On those few occasions that I've done all those things the way I wanted to, I can build all the speed and direction I need before even getting to the 2nd wake, and then "all" I have to do is keep that handle with me and ride out to the buoy, at which point I am early, at the right width, and carrying the right speed.

    Now if I can just do that more than about 5% of the time!
    Nathaniel Bogan -- GUT Padawan
  • IlivetoskiIlivetoski Posts: 1,181 Crazy Baller
    Now that I think about it, I have had that happen a few times at my one ball. I have gotten so wide on my one ball I questioned how I was going to turn it because the ball looked like it was 6 feet to my left but I just took the turn, and I ran it beautifully those times. So if I can learn to do this 100% of the time at 28 it will become like my 22's.
  • Stevie BoyStevie Boy Posts: 1,919 ★★★Triple Panda Award Recipient ★★★
    @Than totally agree with where you are at, my point of view was aimed at somebody just attempting 28 off, once you are getting into the pass and start to get comfortable with the line length etc, the opportunity is there to work things out and improve on angle etc.
    Ilivetoski quote "Turn The Ski Fully and then Load the Line" all I do is "Lean Back and Load the Line" sounds like a recipe for a big OTF

    Lets try Nice and Wide running similar speed to the boat, nice slow turn in, set your angle and body position and hold through the back of the boat "No Extra Load Required"

    @Than I Respect Your Experience and Expertise and in no way are my comments meant to be a criticism

    "Getting Harder/Getting Positive”

  • Than_BoganThan_Bogan Posts: 6,359 Mega Baller
    Didn't think they were! Just trying to be as clear as possible! I am always very aware that I may be completely wrong. Every time I talk with jamie b I realize that I know nothing about slalom!
    Nathaniel Bogan -- GUT Padawan
  • mylemskymylemsky Posts: 103 Baller
    Now that we are off of the second wake, skiing away from the buoy, do i let the boat's pull on the handle dictate when I begin my reach and initiate the turn? I tend to rush my reach, resulting in slack. Apologies if this boarder lines another thread of its own.

    @ilivetoski thanks for starting thread, I think we are at similar spots in the course. Thanks to others for the great intel.
  • Stevie BoyStevie Boy Posts: 1,919 ★★★Triple Panda Award Recipient ★★★
    Just Edge Change and relax, ride the ski to the end of the turn "Do Nothing" at the end of the turn be positive when moving the hip back to the handle, to hold position and angle across course.
    " Your Edge Change Is the End Of Your Turn "

    "Getting Harder/Getting Positive”

  • IlivetoskiIlivetoski Posts: 1,181 Crazy Baller
    After spending a week at Coble with Joel (guy who came out and ran 39 at trophy) and making him close to my personal coach for the week he perfected my 28 and I am getting extremly good looks at 32 now.. Most amazing coach I have ever had and pretty fun to hear his accent too!!!

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