Best performance ski for easier deep water starts

TJacksonTJackson Posts: 2
edited July 2012 in Skis Fins Bindings
Age is a bummer. Just turned 50 and after a ruptured disk and bicep surgery, I am having difficulty getting out the water after 20 years with no problems. Currently ski a Connelly Concept at about 33mph, rear boot. 5'11'', 180 lbs. Only open water, dont have a course here, but ski aggressively once up, no problems there, just having trouble with the starts. Have tried all the tips, can't seem to solve it. Popped right out with a Connelly Sequence with a rear plate, but the performance was noticeably limited once up, not sure if it was the lack of rear boot or the very wide ski. Perhaps I am looking for the impossible, but does anyone have a suggestion for a good performing ski that turns solid and cuts well across the wake, but is easier in deep water starts? I have been looking at the Connelly V and Radar Theory, but cannot seem to find comparisons of width to the Connelly Concept or any comment on whether they are appreciably easier to start on. Its killing me to climb back into the boat after 6 failed starts and watch great water go untouched. Thanks for your help.

Comments

  • ktm300ktm300 Posts: 454 Solid Baller
    Strada, Vice, S2 all ease right out. I'm skiing with a herniated disc too and the getup is the toughest on my back. If you have not, try getting the driver to leave the boat in gear and drag you for a ways before applying the throttle. Tell them to not take it out of gear. You'll kind of rise to the top of the water a bit while dragging which eliminates that initial hit. So many drivers will take off with a few inches of slack in the rope. That hurts my back worse than any of the skiing does.
  • ForrestGumpForrestGump Posts: 6,381
    edited July 2012
    67 Radar Senate/Senate C for what you are wanting is a perfect choice. It's a slightly wider Strada. I skied both and actually preferred the Senate C to the Strada.
    Shane "Crash" Hill

  • SDNAH2OSKIERSDNAH2OSKIER Posts: 309 Baller
    I am skiing on a V for the reasons you mention, I also use clinchers which has dramatically reduced stress on my tendons. The V is a nice ski. I do want something a bit quicker, but it is big and easy ot get up on. I kind of have it for sale, its a 68 with a sidewinder front and rtp. I agree on the boat driving tips as well, little drag before I take the blunt force trauma of the monsoon. : )
    Doug Roberts San Diego, CA ski rating: 2 balls
  • Steven_HainesSteven_Haines Posts: 1,079 ★★★Triple Panda Award Recipient ★★★
    If you're not opposed to Velcro, the Goode wide ride would be a good choice too. I'm on the S2 and using a Powervest (when I get to ski). The S2 is ridiculously easy to ski on! Obviously, that'd be my 1st choice.
  • Chef23Chef23 Posts: 6,065 Mega Baller
    Do you drag your rear foot or get up with both feet in. I find it much easier on your bag if you are a dragger vs two feet. I ruptured a disk last year and skied late in the season before surgery and was able to get out of the water without too much pain dragging the rear foot.
    Mark Shaffer
  • LkSamm196LkSamm196 Posts: 75 Baller
    I always drag the guys when driving just a moment before putting down the hammer. Whether they ask for it or not, I think it is better on the skier.

    I also think it allows the 9 and 2 position(depending upon stance) of the ski to start the rotation to 12 (looking at the clock). I recommend a short drag prior to the throttle.

    Patience is key.
  • ToddLToddL Posts: 3,005 Mega Baller
    When I teach a driver about deep water starts, I recommend the following approach.

    Every skier gets a progressive throttle. The only difference is where you end up (how far the hammer drops) by the time the skier is halfway up. Always start out just in gear for a second to ensure a tight line. Then, move the throttle fluidly forward in a medium sweeping motion. All the while watch in the mirror as the skier is coming out of the water. When the skier is about halfway up, you can hold this throttle position and they will be fine. This works for the smallest of juniors to the largest of guys. The difference is that the junior may be halfway up with only about 10-15% throttle, while the heavy guy may eventually take nearly 100%. If you are steady and smooth as you move the throttle forward, the skier will not feel a hit, nor will they feel excessively dragged in the water.
    -- The future of skiing depends upon welcoming novice skiers regardless of age to our sport.
    Cent
  • TJacksonTJackson Posts: 2
    Thanks everyone, this is a great forum. Two followups. I am surprised at how hard it is to find specs on ski widths. Anyone know specs of or how Connelly Concept compares to the Senate and/or Theory? Also, anyone have experience with the HO Triumph. Heard that it falls in between the Senate and Theory.
  • eleeskieleeski Posts: 4,009 Infinite Pandas
    Shape may matter but some of my wide front skis are surprisingly draggy on startup. Others jump out of the water. Start characteristics have no correlation to buoy count.

    Lisa was on a Concept and struggled with the effort for the deepwater starts. When she switched to the Sixam, she popped out of the water.

    I'm almost ready to try a toe kicker instead of the rear boot just to make getting up easier.

    Eric
  • otisgotisg Posts: 87 Baller
    Mr. Jackson,
    Thanks for the thread.
    I have had a similar problems but I am 63 - 215-220 #'s and skiing on a 67" green Sixam - love the ski once I am up. Last summer I switched from an RTP to rear boot for short ski lake conditions (miss the rear kick-in and your run in the course is over.)
    I was wondering if anyone has skied the O'Brien Quatro?
    I was thinking that the large shovel would make for an easier up - while not sacrificing performance after the pull-up @ 34 mph.
    Does anybody have any experience with the ski and am I correct in my thinking?

    Toddl has it exactly right on the boat driving - particularly with bigger guys - the inclination is to really HIT- IT! - wrong approach the dynamic pressure is way too much for even the stongest grip or back.

    Thanks.
  • otisgotisg Posts: 87 Baller
    Oh !
    I almost forgot that my current boat driver - does all of the pull-ups PERFECTLY - as she just reminded me!
    Drago
  • ForrestGumpForrestGump Posts: 6,381
    @otisg 215lbs on a 67 Sixam? Wow, That's gotta be brutal doing deep water starts. Did you try the Sixam 69?
    Shane "Crash" Hill

  • Ntq206Ntq206 Posts: 78 Baller
    I'm on a Strada and don't know what it is or why - but it gets out of the hole super smooth - straight as an arrow.
    Some skis I've been on like to wander a bit out of the hole - for whatever reason - it just tracks out like it's on a buttery smooth train tracks out of the water.
  • SDNAH2OSKIERSDNAH2OSKIER Posts: 309 Baller
    TJ et al check the ski reviews by Horton under the gear review. Not much mention of widths and deep water starts, but good info on a number of skis.
    Doug Roberts San Diego, CA ski rating: 2 balls
  • Chef23Chef23 Posts: 6,065 Mega Baller
    @otisg the 67 Sixam is awful small at 215-220. I am about that weight and ski a 68.75 a1 that comes out of the water great and turns well.
    Mark Shaffer
  • dbskidbski Posts: 347 Mega Baller
    Being a skier with back problems for 30 years I've found the easiest way to start is using a rear toe and doing a jump start. If you can start close to shore, standing on your back leg and jumping up when the rope comes tight is the easiest method I've found on the back. When I do deep waters I always start dragging my rear foot, seems alot easier. I finally had back surgery a couple years ago and that was the final solution for me.
    Rick Bohn
  • SDNAH2OSKIERSDNAH2OSKIER Posts: 309 Baller
    I actually stopped dragging my foot and feel that is adding less drag on starts. But if you can do dock starts or shallown water starts.

    I was thinking about developing a retractable line so you could step off the platform to start and then winch out to your desired line length. I have the support of the national arthritis foundation.
    Doug Roberts San Diego, CA ski rating: 2 balls
  • gregygregy Posts: 2,590 Mega Baller
    edited July 2012
    Second @Ntq206, I'm 180lb on a Strada 67". If I keep my weight on my front foot I find it comes out of the water easier than any ski I've been on. I would think any of the newer skis that are wider would be similar but I can only speak for the Strada. The Radar Vice uses the same mold but supposed to be more forgiving. I think @Horton did a review on it. Senate C, I think is even wider than the Strada.

    I've had some shoulder issue and getting out of the water is one of the most painful things especially if the driver nails the throttle. Idling along for a second or so seems to help me.
  • bogboybogboy Posts: 699 Solid Baller
    Tjackson: it's no secret that I am very high on the new triumph. Rather than sounding repeatitive, check out the "athletic big guy" thread posted a few days ago.
  • Taelan28Taelan28 Posts: 262
    edited July 2012
    Ive only used an rtp and i dont know what it feels like starting in two boots much less a variety of skis. If you really value boots listen to these guys...otherwise all these slalom skis are probably less than an inch apart in width. if i was you id buy a pair of supercheap beginner skis to get up and then drop one after youre up and slip on the other if you fall. Its as nice as you can be on the body. Off the dock starts jerk you...yet ive yet to try it. If getting up is as hard for you as i think it is youre also sapping a good chunk of your muscle stamina and power after getting up.

    my two cents get up on two and drop. your body will thank you.
  • Rw3Rw3 Posts: 36 Baller
    Bump for more recent skis. Thanks.
  • BuxrusBuxrus Posts: 86 Baller
    Goode wide ride.
  • vtmechengvtmecheng Posts: 959 Crazy Baller
    Check out the Omni line. I find them easy to get up on compared to others. No longer on one myself but it’s a solid option.
    Rednucleus
  • skihartskihart Posts: 549 Solid Baller
    Radar Senate if you want it more towards the performance end of things.
  • skiinxsskiinxs Posts: 718 ★★★Triple Panda Award Recipient ★★★
    The Denali is significantly easier for me to get up on, seems to be less effort running passes as well.
    OldboyII
  • slowslow Posts: 566 Crazy Baller
    decade
    MastercrafterKwoody51
  • CentCent Posts: 273 Baller
    Personally if I had this issue I would get a LaPoint LP 1. Built for your weight speed binding set up etc and ski is wide where you need it underfoot. Wonderful personalized custom skis that work.

    Wide Rides would work for me. Likely also a wider HO like Omni. Not a fan of the Senate.

  • OldboyIIOldboyII Posts: 731 Crazy Baller
    edited July 3
    From the point of view of physics as a science, the main contribution for easier start gives a part of ski (No of sq.cm's) which is behind front binding.
    So w/o discussion about any particular ski the choice is the ski with wider tail and more centimeters of front boot placement.
    IMO
    Unregistered
    vtmecheng
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