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So tell me about pulling the wing off?

sunvalleylawsunvalleylaw Posts: 1,259 Mega Baller
edited August 2012 in Skis Fins Bindings
For those that don't know, I am a strong rec skier with some limited course experience hoping to get into the course more, and move from 15 off on through up to 28 off next year, hopefully at my full speed of 34. At least that is my goal. I am on a D3 RCX, 68" and weigh in the mid 180s. I may move to a 67 if I can find a decent used RCX or Fusion.

With regard to the wing, right now I have it flipped over and at 8 degrees. I ski on pretty cold water, 60 something degrees, unless I am at my friend's comp lake that is in the high 70s or into the 80s some days.

Tell me about just taking the wing off at my level please. Kinda seems that at my 15 off'r level, the less I fiddle around with that stuff the better. Thanks!
Horton

Comments

  • sunvalleylawsunvalleylaw Posts: 1,259 Mega Baller
    P.S., at a clinic last year, Bob LaPoint without giving him any choice, simply pulled the wing off the ski owned by my buddy who has the place at the ski lake, who is also a 15 off'r. It made him sad. LOL!
  • HortonHorton Posts: 27,741 Administrator
    On most skis at 34mph I do not run a wing. Best thing to do is try it. But yes you do not want to tweak a lot at your level.

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  • sunvalleylawsunvalleylaw Posts: 1,259 Mega Baller
    Ok, I'll just try it. If I don't like it, I will put it back on where it feels pretty good (right now flipped upside down), mark it to keep it in the right place, and forget about it until I am skiing much better.

    Also, the fin seems to not be a stock alu one, but a thicker one made of carbon or something. I may replace the unmarked thicker fin the ski came with with a stock one with markings. Although if it is working, I suppose there is no reason to mess with it.
  • HortonHorton Posts: 27,741 Administrator
    Sounds like you have a fin i made. Leave it in there. Works great with that ski.

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    sunvalleylaw
  • ForrestGumpForrestGump Posts: 6,052
    Some skis I can run without a wing, some I can't. Had to run a wing on the Elite and Goode Mid. Never ran one on the D3 Custom4, SixamSS, and now A2.
    Shane "Crash" Hill

  • swc5150swc5150 Posts: 2,254 ★★★Triple Panda Award Recipient ★★★
    I'm a 34mph guy as well, and don't use a wing on my D3.
    Scott Calderwood
  • DekeDeke Posts: 381 Baller
    @sunvalleylaw I'm about the same as you, water temp cold too. I don't use a wing and love it. Seems the issue at -15 and lower speeds is keeping enough speed in the turn to get a decent angle. So why would you want more drag? Toss it. Free your ski. Free your mind!
    sunvalleylaw
  • sunvalleylawsunvalleylaw Posts: 1,259 Mega Baller
    Thanks guys. @Deke, are you sure you aren't a telemark skier in the wintertime? That sounds suspiciously familiar to what the tele guys say.

    @Horton, cool! Now I am curious if you made it. It is on a ski from the Redding area. I may shoot a pic and post it just for grins and to satisfy my curiosity.
  • Than_BoganThan_Bogan Posts: 6,464 Mega Baller
    edited August 2012
    In my opinion, a wing is fairly useless -- and maybe could even be a detriment -- at -15. Where it potentially can be helpful (depending on the skier, ski, etc.) is at -28 when you start to have a bigger difference between your minimum and maximum speeds. The wing can help shut the ski down and decelerate quickly to the right speed.

    That said, I run a very shallow wing (7 degrees) because I don't want too much of that effect. So it doesn't surprise me that some folks in deep shortline don't use a wing at all. It also doesn't surprise me that some run it 9 or 10 degrees.

    I'd also claim that if get below 6 you should just take it off, and if you get over 10 then your ski is the wrong size. I'm sure not everyone would agree with those statements, though!
    Nathaniel Bogan -- GUT Padawan
  • WaternutWaternut Posts: 1,511 Crazy Baller
    First lesson I ever took on a slalom course, the guy recommended I either set the wing nuetral or take it off. When I took a second lesson at a different course, that guy said at below 34mph, you're only hurting yourself even with a nuetral wing. The guy I currently ski with runs into 35 off all the time at 34mph and doesn't run a wing.

    @sunvalleylaw I don't really know exactly where you are in terms of skill so I'll tell you where I was/am and let you decide from there. I used to ski between 32-34mph and considered myself a strong open water skier. I've skied around 15-20 sets on the course this year at 15 off and I'm still skiing 28mph inconsistently. Moving up to 30mph makes things even harder for me even though I was used to skiing a lot faster on open water. My biggest problem is maintaining enough speed to get out to the buoys on my offside and the wing makes it virtually impossible.
  • sunvalleylawsunvalleylaw Posts: 1,259 Mega Baller
    edited August 2012
    @jfw432, thanks. It sounds like that realistically, I am similar to where you were before you took some lessons. I have run 15 off at 30 missing one ball this year. (my only attempt at a course this year so far. I hope to get more soon). I used to be able to run 15 off semi consistently, but that was years ago, behind an outboard. That was at as close to 36 as we could get the old Glastron to go, but I could pull that thing all over the place, and definitely slowed it down.

    I like to freeski with the rope at 22, then 28 off, and used to always ski as close as I could to 36, but again, behind an outboard. So at best, unless I get a ride behind someone's comp boat, I am at best freeskiing at the range of speeds you recommend. When I got behind my buddy's 2009 Nautique this year, 36 felt very, very fast. I asked him to slow it down even for freeskiing.

    For my course work, I plan to basically start at the very beginning, starting at 28, 15 off, and work up from there as I get consistent at each length. I am hoping to spend very little time at 28 mph, as I hate how skiing feels at that speed. ;-) Hoping I can get consistent fairly soon at 30 mph at least, then go from there. But since I am only a weekend warrior, my goals may take some time.

    Ok, that was a bit off topic. Sounds like I am pulling the wing of what we think is @Horton's fin, and going from there!
  • Than_BoganThan_Bogan Posts: 6,464 Mega Baller
    edited August 2012
    @jfw32 If by "neutral" you mean 0 degrees, then I wouldn't recommend that. The ski doesn't ride exactly flat in the water, so in reality a 0 degree wing is pointing upward most of time. I believe you'll find that is far worse than no wing.

    I consider 6 degrees to be about the neutral position. At that angle it may provide a little stability but otherwise doesn't do much. (I have run a 6 degree wing successfully in 95+ degree water. I could take it off, but I'm just a little more used to the feel of having it there.)
    Nathaniel Bogan -- GUT Padawan
  • sunvalleylawsunvalleylaw Posts: 1,259 Mega Baller
    @Than, that was pretty much how I ran it on my old Duvall. It was more of a security blanket than anything, or so I think at this point. Given my goals, I am just going to try it with the wing removed altogether.
  • PBDPBD Posts: 190 Baller
    Be warned, if you are used to skiing with a wing particularly if you have much angle in it, the ski will be much faster. I'm a 34 MPH guy and I got rid of the wing years and years ago after using one for a long time. I had to sleep on my back for about a week after I took it off, as my shoulders were so sore from the massive out the fronts I took I couldn't lay on my side. Take it easy the first set or two without the wing on.
  • ralral Posts: 1,708 Mega Baller
    @sunvalleylaw, marking does not work for precise fin adjustment. Rather get an angle gauge set...
    Rodrigo Andai
  • crashmancrashman Posts: 722 Crazy Baller
    my skiing improved quite a bit after I removed my wing based on suggestions here on BOS. For me it might be partly because I'm running a ski meant for fast speeds (radar vice) at slower speeds (30-32mph) but without the wing I feel like I'm able to cary more speed around the buoy and take less load from the boat.
    slalom addiction triggering irrational behavior
    Waternut
  • greghayesgreghayes Posts: 113 Baller
    I too dumped the wing for my 34mph -22 skiing. I'd recommend making the change first thing in the season. That way you won't notice as much of a difference as you are getting used to your ski again.
  • HortonHorton Posts: 27,741 Administrator
    Is not really that huge of a difference. On most skis i can jump back and forth. It makes a difference but taking it off is not freaky.

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    crashman
  • sunvalleylawsunvalleylaw Posts: 1,259 Mega Baller
    I'm not that worried about it. Last time I skied, I was on three different skis that day with different lengths, wing and fin settings, and design. I will take it easy on the first couple turns and try to develop a rhythm as always. But always good to develop a rhythm and feel before just going for it.
  • tfriesstfriess Posts: 401 Baller
    Just the thread I wanted to read. Thanks
    Can I just ski 24/7?
  • Ed_JohnsonEd_Johnson Posts: 2,117
    edited August 2012
    Another suggestion is to replace the rear wing with the Raley Standard Size Ventral, tips down, set at 6 degrees. It will still give the ski stability without the drag associated with a normal wing.
    Special Thanks to Performance Ski and Surf and the Denali Adam's !!!
  • sunvalleylawsunvalleylaw Posts: 1,259 Mega Baller
    Just for reference, this is how my fin and wing currently look:

    image
  • The_MSThe_MS Posts: 5,254 Mega Baller
    Horton Carbon Fin
    Shut up and ski
    sunvalleylaw
  • sunvalleylawsunvalleylaw Posts: 1,259 Mega Baller
    @MS, yep. I found that out yesterday. I had no idea I was getting that on this used RCX. Pretty cool! Seems to work good for me from what I can tell.
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