Miscellaneous ramblings about skis

HortonHorton Posts: 32,531 Administrator
edited August 2008 in Skis Fins Bindings
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<font size="3"><font color="#000000"><font face="Times New Roman">As the regulars here know I am no longer in charge of the Ski Tests but will act as an adviser this year. Describing a slalom skis in a meaningful way is harder then you may think. I have come to believe that ranking skis is a mistake. I have always believed that if the ski tests were done right you, the reader, would see that one ski is good at X and Y but not good at A and B. That way you could buy based on your style. <span> </span></font></font></font>
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<font face="Times New Roman" size="3" color="#000000">The first time I did the ski tests Speed was the parameter that caused the most headlines. I think that I am going to suggest this year that we talk about the technical control needed to get wide. As an example I think that the Radar, Fisher and many of the Goodes get wide regardless of technique. Older D3s were branded as slow. The truth is that skis like the X5 required better technique to get wide. The point that is totally missed by most is that since an X5 is so stable it is easier to control the handle. In other words the X5 may lend itself to better ski technique and width. </font><font face="Times New Roman" size="3" color="#000000"> </font>
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<font face="Times New Roman" size="3" color="#000000">To me the F1 kills the conventional wisdom in regards to speed. With the settings that I have tried on the F1 the ski feels like a brick off the ball and then it flings the skier amazingly wide off the second wake. The Prophecy (with near stock settings) threw me for a loop in regards to width when I first rode it. As I rode it more I found it very easy to  control the handle because of the skis roll stability. As handle control got better width increased until I was as wide on the Prophecy as any ski. </font>
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<font face="Times New Roman" size="3" color="#000000">On another subject: Between the 5 skis that I have spent a lot of time on there is a real difference in my ability to do a good short gate. With MPD (only ski I have run 38 on to date) my short gate frankly sucks. I can not seem to swing the ski underneath me very well on the way out. I do not know why. With the RS-1s <span> </span>the short gate is spectacular. In fact any turn on my heel side is brainless. The Prophecy like the RS-1 makes the short gate easy.</font> <font face="Times New Roman" size="3" color="#000000"> </font>
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<font face="Times New Roman" size="3" color="#000000">Skied on and loved in the last 12 months</font>
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<font face="Times New Roman" size="3" color="#000000">O’Brien SS</font>
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<font face="Times New Roman" size="3" color="#000000">Radar RS-1</font> (best practice score this year so far)
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<font face="Times New Roman" size="3" color="#000000">Radar MPD</font> (only ski I have run 38s on)
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<font face="Times New Roman" size="3" color="#000000">Connelly Prophecy</font>
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<font face="Times New Roman" size="3" color="#000000">D3 RCX</font> (only one ride but super impressed)
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<font face="Times New Roman" size="3" color="#000000">HO A1</font>  (only one ride so far but super impressed)
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<span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'"><font color="#000000">All different…. All put me to an average around 100 balls. </font></span>

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Comments

  • BillBartonBillBarton Posts: 103 Baller
    <p>
    I know organizing the Ski Test was a lot of hassle for you John, but I'm glad you did it. I've used it every year.
    </p>
    <p>
    Do think there will be one for 2009?
    </p>
  • HortonHorton Posts: 32,531 Administrator
    edited August 2008
    <em><font color="#0000ff">I am no longer in charge of the Ski Tests but will act as an adviser this year</font></em>

    Support BallOfSpray by supporting the companies that support BallOfSpray

    Connelly ☆DBSkis ☆Denali ☆Goode ☆GiveGo ☆MasterCraft ☆ Masterline 

    Performance Ski and Surf ☆ Reflex ☆ Radar ☆ Rodics OffCourse ☆ S Lines ☆ Stokes ☆

  • HortonHorton Posts: 32,531 Administrator
    edited August 2008
     As I am messing around with the Prophecy and the A1 lately I have been working on a way to describe how skis feel under foot. In mid preturn the A1 feels long. What does "long" mean..... well I am not really sure. It is a "feeling"
    <p>
    It is as if the there is more ski in the water in front of my front boot. I have no idea if the A1 really as more wetted area, it is just how it feels. My guess is,  part of this feeling is from the skis extra stability in terms of pitch. The tail is close to 1/3" wider in the tail then the Monza. This feeling may be caused by rocker design.
    </p>
    <p>
    I have not ridden an RCX for 9 months but it left me with the exact opposite impression. It felt as if there was less of a platform in front of my front foot. I think I get the same sort of feeling from the 9800SL. On the RCX you can feel that the ski is going to carve a tight radius. The ski feels smaller and perhaps more nimble at this point. When I rode the RCX this feeling surprised me but I can not say if it is good or bad. The ski is clearly a winner, the question is what does this “feeling” mean. The feedback from the A1 is very different.
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    <p>
    The Prophecy and the RS-1 do not stand out to me in terms of this feeling but the Prophecy feels extra  stable in roll off right after the edge change. It is as if the ski is wider then the others. I am pretty sure the feeling is the result of the ski sitting deeper in the water ski and being generally more stable.
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    <p>
    When I experimented with binding placement on the RS-1, the roll stability decreased as the bindings go back. With stock settings this ski fell very balanced between the second wake and the ball. The feeling of less roll stability is by no means a bad thing, it means that with all things being equal, the ski is more eager to carve back to the wakes. The Monza is the psoter child for this.
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    <p>
    All this is just food for thought. Please do not take a sentence or two out of context here and spend $1500 because you think I am saying one ski is better then the others. I am not. I am saying they "Feel" different. "Feel" and ball count <em>may or may not</em> be correlated.
    </p>

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  • ForrestGumpForrestGump Posts: 6,375
    <p>
    Interesting topic here, John. I think your talk about roll stability brings me back to my feelings about the difference between the RS1 and Sixam SS.  The RS1 does seem to be a lot more stable under foot as you're letting the ski swing out from under you coming off the 2nd wake. Whereas the SS feels like it snaps from one edge to the other.  I ski the same bouy count on either one and both seem to get about the same width. It's just different.
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    <p>
     So on the A1, the ski feels longer in the preturn. What about from the apex on?
    </p>
    Shane "Crash" Hill

  • HortonHorton Posts: 32,531 Administrator
    edited August 2008
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    <font face="Times New Roman" size="3" color="#000000">That is interesting that you compare the RS-1 and the SS that way. I skied on the SS for a year and really loved how smooth is. I do not remember the edge change that way but it has been a year.</font>
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    <font face="Times New Roman" size="3" color="#000000">My first impression of the A1 was that it does not rotate super fast at the apex like the MPD, snap 90 degrees like the Monza, nor did it carve a tight but calm line like the RCX. As I settle in on the ski I am able to turn more aggressively and it seems to forgive a lot of skier generated toe side stupidity. I guess I would describe the apex to the hookup to be most like the RCX but I am only 3 rides in.</font>
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    <font face="Times New Roman" size="3" color="#000000">What I have found is that I can throw myself at the tip of the ski if needed. So far I like this ski under duress. <span> </span>Ya know, who cares how a ski feels on your opener.</font>
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    Support BallOfSpray by supporting the companies that support BallOfSpray

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  • Old MS AccoutOld MS Accout Posts: 2,114 Baller
    <p>
    I rode the newest RS1 last night. I took 2 sets on it and was amazed at how a differant flex can feel from ski to ski.
    </p>
    <p>
    On my White RS1 I could not keep the ski moving and when I would grab the handle the ski would stall on me. This would be fine until I get to 38 where the stall would usually put me in the water shortly after 1 ball. With the stiffer RS that I have now, it carries speed nice and no stall after the ball. I am using the silver fin.  
    </p>
  • slalomdudeslalomdude Posts: 154
    Do you know how different the flex is, is it one of the black National edition Rs-1
  • Old MS AccoutOld MS Accout Posts: 2,114 Baller
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    Its a black new nationals edition.
    </p>
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    It is about the same as my white flex, but more consistant stiffer throughought. Eddie told me that my white was a bit stiffer then the other white, but this new black is torsional stiffer from head to tail. I think the middle of my white ski was a bit softer. Its enough differance to make the stall problem I had go away.  
    </p>
  • ForrestGumpForrestGump Posts: 6,375
    Do you have a picture of the new black ski?
    Shane "Crash" Hill

  • Old MS AccoutOld MS Accout Posts: 2,114 Baller
    Not today, but if you look at the white RS1, everything that is white is now black and anything that was black is now white. 
  • Found this on Performance
  • ForrestGumpForrestGump Posts: 6,375
    Damn, the black is sexy. Eddie told me they're all sold. :(
    Shane "Crash" Hill

  • I personally think the white ski looks way cooler.
  • <p>
    <font face="arial,helvetica,sans-serif" size="3">Horton,</font>
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    <font face="arial,helvetica,sans-serif" size="3">Have you skied the 68 RS-1. I would like to hear how good the ski is at X and Y but not good at A and B! Have you tried the new wing? Are you using RS-1 bindings for all your evaluations? After the summer what is your long term report on the RS-1 binding?</font>
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  • slowslow Posts: 562 Crazy Baller
    The white reminds me of an apre's ski you would find in Aspen. I would change to black too.
  • RichardDoaneRichardDoane Posts: 4,834 Mega Baller
    <p>
    Any Black ski will get considerably hotter when left in the sun, which can be bad for it's longetivity.  My white RS-1 can be left in the sun without any problems - a benefit to having a ski that doesn't absorb heat.
    </p>
    BallOfSpray Pacific Northwest Vice President of Event Management, aka "Zappy"
  • slowslow Posts: 562 Crazy Baller
    <p>
    you must have white bindings too
    </p>
  • RichardDoaneRichardDoane Posts: 4,834 Mega Baller
    no, just standard RS boots, but they're not made of carbon fiber, so no long term damage from heat exposure
    BallOfSpray Pacific Northwest Vice President of Event Management, aka "Zappy"
  • slowslow Posts: 562 Crazy Baller
    I guess I haven't seen them. There must not be rubber in them at all.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 1,618 Mega Baller
    <p>
    I wouldn't leave any ski in the sun...
    </p>
    <p>
     
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    <p>
    RS1 bindings long term report:
    </p>
    <p>
    1) I love them.
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    2) Get extra standoff bushings, they wear. Anyone (Shark) who doesn't think the system slides on the bushings hasn't used them.
    </p>
    <p>
    3) Get a few extra of the small (front lace) adjuster. The knob for releasing the tension is a press fit into the tension wheel and can come out. Once that happens, the tension wheel will be lost soon thereafter.
    </p>
    <p>
    4) General wear: None noted.
    </p>
    <p>
    I have set a new personal best in practice on them (4 @ 38 with a good time) and nearly tied my PB in a tournament (PB 2 @ 38, score 1.5 @38) which is saying something since the score was behind ZO which I find much more difficult to run 35 behind than PP Classic.
    </p>
    <p>
    Comfort is outstanding. I can put my bindings on while the previous skier is on his first pass. I was waiting with them on in a tournament when the skier went down on the pass away from the starting dock. The boat stopped at the far end as usual and then returned to pick me up. While waiting in the water, the boat judge told me they were reviewing the gates of the previous skier and was I ok. I thought about it for a moment and replied; Yeah, I am!
    </p>
    <p>
    Other: If you're new to the system, pay attention to how tight you wear them. There MUST be some elasticity left in the laces. For me, the size 10 was too tight on my toes so I chose the size 11. This presented an issue because my feet are somewhat narrow. I had to pull the laces all the way tight to get the fit I wanted. This left no elasticity in the laces and might cause the binding to not release when needed. The solution I used was to add a set of superfeet orthotics inside the liners. This upped the volume to where I can have the fit I want and still have the release properties designed into the sytsem. As a side benefit, they are very comfortable. I have released straight over the tip without issue. I have also taken a violent out the front through the wakes and both stayed on. The system performs exactly as I would want it to.
    </p>
    <p>
    Final note: This is a motion sport and you can get hurt in ANY binding system. In my opinion, this system is the safest yet. It releases when I need it to and just as important to me, it CAN'T pre-release. I've seen first hand all three of the other majors pre-release (Goode, Fogman, and FM).
    </p>
    <p>
     
    </p>
    Roger B. Clark - Okeeheelee skier. Senior driver, Senior Judge
  • ForrestGumpForrestGump Posts: 6,375
    <p>
    I agree with pretty much everything Roger said here. I got mine in early June and love them.  I've released out the front multiple times without issue.  What pushed me to get into the RS1's was that I did not come out wearing D3s when I stuffed it at the bouy and I ended up with a small spiral fracture in my femur. It didn't keep me from skiing but made my shin feel as if I'd been kicked by a horse. lol I feel safer in these than I have in anything else.  I wear a size 10.5 and bought the 11s. I don't even bother to cinch the lower laces. Just wrap cross and wrap the laces over the top posts and snug the adjuster. The only gripe I do have is that the laces pulled out of the clamps on both. After talking to Eddie, he had me reclamp em and tie a knot in the laces right at the clamp. He said to pull on the knot rather than the clamp and I should be good from now on. Before my rear foot would be cramping by the 4th or 5 pass. Now my feet don't bother me at all.
    </p>
    <p>
     Shane Hill
    </p>
    Shane "Crash" Hill

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