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32 off questions (with video)

kpickettkpickett Posts: 141 Baller
edited August 2008 in Videos, Photos & Media
<p>
OK, thanks all of you who gave advice when I asked about moving from 28 to 32.  I've been running my 28s right off the dock, just about every time now.  I haven't quite cracked 32, but I've been getting to or around 4 ball most times.
</p>
<p>
These are the things I've been working hard on - getting really up on the boat on my pull-out for the gates, keeping my elbows in as long as possible out to the buoy, and keeping my hips up through the wakes.
</p>
<p>
Watching these videos I see that I really dip my inside shoulder on my 2-4-6 side.  I've been told to keep my arm/shoulder/head up for two years now, but I don't know how to do it.  Any suggestions?  It seems like when I dip my shoulder, the ski doesn't come around completely and I lose angle.  I've also been told to be patient out of the turn. 
</p>
<p>
BTW - I'm on a 66 F1, skiing at 34.  Here are the videos: 
</p>
<p>
28 Off
</p>
<p>
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=01zt_B3sJN8">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=01zt_B3sJN8</a>
</p>
<p>
4 Balls at 32
</p>
<p>
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KFUsRKzHKiE">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KFUsRKzHKiE</a>
</p>
<p>
32 off, shadow ball 5
</p>
<p>
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MfhIdEbagQU">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MfhIdEbagQU</a>
</p>
<p>
Thanks very much,
</p>
<p>
Kyle Pickett
</p>
Kyle Wiley Pickett

Comments

  • skibugskibug Posts: 2,071
    One sugggestion, if possible, is to get the video from the boat.  Your 1-3-5 turns look pretty good.  On your 2-4 it looks like you are reaching in towards the centerline of the course as opposed to "shooting the pylon" with the handle; meaning the reach needs to be up and in front of you like you were shooting a gun at the pylon, not sideways.  This should help keep your inside shoulder from dipping.  PS - I am working cracking the same line length.  I have been around 5 ball once and 3-4 on average.
    Bob Grizzi
  • tsixamtsixam Posts: 371 Baller
    <span><font size="3"><font color="#000000"><font face="Times New Roman">To keep your head up around 2 ball try this. When your ski tip reach the 2 ball or when you know you are going to make it, spot 3 ball and keep your eyes on it until you know you are going to make it..It is almost impossible to dip your shoulder and head if you do this. Good luck!</font></font></font></span><span><font size="3"><font color="#000000"><font face="Times New Roman">Tsixam</font></font></font></span>
  • Than_BoganThan_Bogan Posts: 6,647 Mega Baller
    <p>
    Where are you looking in the course?  In some cases I've been able to prevent all sorts of preturn wonkiness by keeping my visual focus straight ahead (for example, looking at 3 ball while rounding 1) until the ski has *completed* the turn.  This will feel bizarre at first, and you may not choose to do it all the time, but for me it's been a great training aid for improving body position.
    </p>
    <p>
    I'm not sure if I'm reading too much into your post, but if you're regularly coming off the dock at -28, I personally believe that's a mistake.  In order to make technique changes, and to solidify consistency, you need to spend a lot of time running passes that are relatively easy for you.  If -32 is the pass you can't quite make, then my 2 cents would be to start at -15 in most sets.  Spend plenty of time at -15 and -22 GETTING BETTER.  (Don't just ski them; work on skiing them BETTER.)  Then try to carry it over to -28 and -32 (and before you know it, -35 and -38!).
    </p>
    <p>
    Finally, from the video, my assessment is you aren't holding your pull long enough in either direction, with the result of being breifly on a flat ski (and thus pulled downcourse).  Where this will usually bite you is in an awkward preturn and/or a stall at the end of the turn.  So if you hold that pull longer (or keep your "energy" going outward as some of the younger coaches like to say), you may find your turn problems just go away!  Keeping your arms straighter on your way across may give you better leverage as well.
    </p>
    <p>
    Hope this helps more than it hurts.  Good luck!
    </p>
    Nathaniel Bogan -- GUT Padawan
  • HortonHorton Posts: 29,158 Administrator
    edited August 2008
    <p>
    I hate to be the one to say it but the F1 is one of the hardest to ride and least forgiving skis out there. If you ride it just right it is freak'n kick ass but  . . . Have you tried a Prophacy? It is a better  ski and is ten times as easy to ride.
    </p>
    <p>
     
    </p>
    <p>
    Besides that . . . video from the boat.
    </p>

     

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  • kpickettkpickett Posts: 141 Baller
    <p>
    Thanks, guys. 
    </p>
    <p>
    I appreciate all the comments.  I will get some video from the boat this weekend. 
    </p>
    <p>
    Brent - I'm going to try the fin adjustment this weekend.  Thanks for the tip.
    </p>
    <p>
    Skibug and Tsi - great ideas - I'll try them both.
    </p>
    <p>
    Thanimal - yeah, I wasn't clear.  I've been running a lot of 22s and 28s, and I almost always start my sets at 22.  I just meant that I've been consistent on my 28s, and I can pretty much run them off the dock every time now.  As far as holding my pull long enough, I agree.  I think it comes from trying to edge change earlier.  Any suggestions on how to hold the pull long enough and also edge change early?
    </p>
    <p>
    Horton -  Funny you should say that.  I had been on an 06 Monza.  After a lesson with Terry Winter, he suggested I try his F1.  I ran my PB on my third pass.  I seem to get more width and better turns than on anything else I've tried.  And, you're right - when I ride it right, it feels so great.  I might try a Prophesy, but if I buy another ski this year, my wife might kill me.
    </p>
    <p>
    Thanks, guys.
    </p>
    <p>
    Kyle
    </p>
    Kyle Wiley Pickett
  • HortonHorton Posts: 29,158 Administrator
    If the F1 works then great. Terry looks sick on it.

     

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  • kpickettkpickett Posts: 141 Baller
    <p>
    Yeah - so far, so good.  I find it way more forgiving on my offside than the Monza.  I liked the Monza, but if I was a little out of position, it would throw me off the ski at 2 or 4. 
    </p>
    <p>
    On the F1, my fin is 6.89 (tips), 2.49, .77 dft - 8 deg wing.  That sound about right?
    </p>
    Kyle Wiley Pickett
  • HortonHorton Posts: 29,158 Administrator
    That is a lot of length but if it works . . . .

     

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  • RogerRoger Posts: 1,587 Mega Baller
    <p>
    Video from the boat would help, but it looks like you have little angle through the gate to me. You seem to come off 1 ball down course and just make 2.
    </p>
    <p>
    I'm not a 1 handed gate skier myself, but if you were skiing a 2 handed gate, I would recomment getting much further up on the boat for the turn in. Maybe a 1 handed gate skier can recommend what is needed...
    </p>
    <p>
    The boat video when you get it should reveal more about this (maybe the angle of the video is deceiving me, but you look narrow to me).
    </p>
    <p>
     
    </p>
    Roger B. Clark - Okeeheelee skier. Senior driver, Senior Judge
  • skidawgskidawg Posts: 3,329 Mega Baller
    Gate shot is to narrow and u have very little water speed.  Get wider on the boat and turn in with more water speed
    Mr. Mom is Horton's favorite movie!
  • kpickettkpickett Posts: 141 Baller
    <p>
    Thanks.  I'll get wider on the boat in my pullout. 
    </p>
    <p>
    Skidawg - can you explain "water speed?"
    </p>
    <p>
    Horton - I added length to try to get the tip down on my offside.  On the video, you can see it really rise at the end of the 4 ball turn.  Is there a different fin adjustment that would deal with that problem better?
    </p>
    Kyle Wiley Pickett
  • HortonHorton Posts: 29,158 Administrator
    <p>
    Rise at the end of the turn = too much depth.
    </p>
    <p>
    Get a beer or two and see if you can read though this mess <a href="http://ballofspray.com/vanillaforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=22&page=1#Item_0">http://ballofspray.com/vanillaforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=22&page=1#Item_0</a>
    </p>
    <p>
     
    </p>

     

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  • Than_BoganThan_Bogan Posts: 6,647 Mega Baller
    <p>
    Why are you trying to edge change early?  Is that a new-fangled technique that I missed the boat on?  (Wouldn't be surprised.)
    </p>
    <p>
    But in my estimation, the best skiers edge change very quickly and gracefully, but much later than "fairly good skiers."  I've had the good fortune of watching Jamie ski quite a lot over the years, and I'd say he remains on the cutting edge much longer than mortals like me.  He's not necessarily pulling for all he's worth at that point, but he's making sure all his momentum continues outbound so that when he <em>does</em> finally change edges, he has plenty of space to turn.
    </p>
    <p>
    Horton may be right that you can improve things with fin adjustments, but in my opinion:
    </p>
    <p>
    Rise at end of turn == edge change too soon in preturn.
    </p>
    <p>
    I'm a pretty big believer that you don't need to mess with your fin and wing very much until you get about as much as you can out of your technique.  Some of us passed that point long ago [I haven't had a personal best in years], so we're desperately trying to get a few more balls by tweaking our equipment. :)
    </p>
    Nathaniel Bogan -- GUT Padawan
  • skidawgskidawg Posts: 3,329 Mega Baller
    <p>
    Water speed 101
    </p>
    <p>
     
    </p>
    <p>
    I feel like the best gates happen when the skier has a consistent water speed, i.e. when turning in for your gate you don't want to be moving faster than the boat or slower than the boat (having the boat run away from you)
    </p>
    Mr. Mom is Horton's favorite movie!
  • HortonHorton Posts: 29,158 Administrator
    I am strong believer that I need to edge change as close to the center line as possible. The longer you pull the shorter your arc to the ball and the less carry out you get. Jamie is from another planet.

     

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  • RogerRoger Posts: 1,587 Mega Baller
    <p>
    I've ridden in the boat for nearly all the top pros and I can tell you they all change edge very quickly after the wake. Just check out Chris:
    </p>
    <p>
     
    </p>
    <p>
    <a href="http://ballofspray.com/coppermine/displayimage.php?album=7&pos=7#nav_pic">http://ballofspray.com/coppermine/displayimage.php?album=7&pos=7#nav_pic</a>
    </p>
    <p>
    <a href="http://ballofspray.com/coppermine/displayimage.php?album=7&pos=8#nav_pic">http://ballofspray.com/coppermine/displayimage.php?album=7&pos=8#nav_pic</a>
    </p>
    <p>
    And yes, Jamie is from another planet...
    </p>
    <p>
     
    </p>
    Roger B. Clark - Okeeheelee skier. Senior driver, Senior Judge
  • Than_BoganThan_Bogan Posts: 6,647 Mega Baller
    <p>
    Hm, I see what you mean, but are coaches really telling people to purposely change edges "early" now?  I hypothesize most skiers would get worse by trying to do that.  They key fact is that the ski must actually BE on an edge all the time, or you're simply drifting down course.  Always bad.
    </p>
    <p>
    So the advice I'm trying to give is really to stay on the cutting edge until you are ready to commit to the turning edge.  What I see happening to kpickett is that he's giving up his pull before he is ready to initiate a turn, and thus flat-skiing directly toward the buoy, instead of maintaining a "high," early line through the pass.
    </p>
    <p>
    In those videos, Parrish is never on a flat ski for an instant.  Perhaps there's a better way to explain this to someone, but I've always found that the simple direction "pull longer" results in less flat skiing, and thus more buoys.  Do you guys use other cues to ensure edge-to-edge skiing?  (If so, this seems likely to help MY skiing, too, which is way more important than kpickett's skiing. <img src="/vanillaforum/js/tinymce/jscripts/tiny_mce/plugins/emotions/images/smiley-smile.gif" border="0" alt="Smile" title="Smile" />)
    </p>
    <p>
    Or perhaps I am diagnosing the problem completely wrong?
    </p>
    Nathaniel Bogan -- GUT Padawan
  • RogerRoger Posts: 1,587 Mega Baller
    <p>
    "Hm, I see what you mean, but are coaches really telling people to purposely change edges "early" now?"
    </p>
    <p>
    Don't know what anyone has coached you on, but I've always heard early edge change. The key is to maintain outbound direction during and after the edge change...
    </p>
    <p>
     
    </p>
    Roger B. Clark - Okeeheelee skier. Senior driver, Senior Judge
  • RichardDoaneRichardDoane Posts: 4,383 Mega Baller
    just remember to stay on the handle to maintain the outward direction with your early edge change - my .02 -
    BallOfSpray Pacific Northwest Vice President of Event Management, aka "Zappy"
  • RichardDoaneRichardDoane Posts: 4,383 Mega Baller
    How'd I get the colonel as an icon ?   I'd prefer "Zippy the Pinhead" !
    BallOfSpray Pacific Northwest Vice President of Event Management, aka "Zappy"
  • kpickettkpickett Posts: 141 Baller
    <p>
    OK - again, thanks all of you, for your ideas.  I think I'm going to get out this afternoon, so I'll work on getting wide for my gates.  And, I'll also try to stay on the handle so there's no flat skiing.  I'll let you know how it goes.
    </p>
    <p>
    Horton - I know I'm a new guy, but how do I get a cool avatar like the other guys?
    </p>
    <p>
    Kyle
    </p>
    Kyle Wiley Pickett
  • skidawgskidawg Posts: 3,329 Mega Baller
    treat jth like a step child will get you a cool kitty avatar
    Mr. Mom is Horton's favorite movie!
  • Than_BoganThan_Bogan Posts: 6,647 Mega Baller
    Wow, we in the northeast are more backward than I thought.  I've never heard anyone suggest an early edge change until Horton did so on this thread.  I don't have a clue how I would ski like that.  I'd be going inside the buoys at -32, much less -38.  I think it's safe to say I'm too old for that new trick.  (New to me anyhow.)
    Nathaniel Bogan -- GUT Padawan
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