Anyone understand what Smith is doing in this image?

HortonHorton Posts: 27,168 Administrator
edited October 2012 in Technique & Theory
See how straight and low is left hand is? A lot of pros do this. I think it is called "Posting"

image

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Comments

  • A_BA_B Posts: 4,053 Mega Baller
    I think it also sets up the handle to where his hip will be swinging around to, instead of "pumping" the handle from a higher position. Reduces unneccessary movement. Notice he is not rotating his palm up and reaching high to the pylon, which is recommended by many teachers of the sport. This can cause people to bring the handle in high and then have to drop it to their hip.. Just what I have observed...
  • WishWish Posts: 7,716 ★★★Triple Panda Award Recipient ★★★
    I think I like planking better. As for posting. My guess is simply a different way for hadle control to happen. There's no load there so rather (like said above) then reaching high with bent elbow he keeps it low at hip level Where it stayes the entire pass.
    >>> 11.25..a different kettle of fish. <<<
  • Stevie BoyStevie Boy Posts: 1,915 ★★★Triple Panda Award Recipient ★★★
    At short line lengths, surely must help with the rotation of the hips to the handles ?
    Must Gaurantee not getting caught forward by the boat as well.

    "Getting Harder/Getting Positive”

    [Deleted User]
  • Pat MPat M Posts: 652 Crazy Baller
    This is something that I've noticed also with him. Hoping to try to incorporate in to my skiing next year.
    There's got to be a distinct reason he does it
    [Deleted User]
  • BoneHeadBoneHead Posts: 6,028
    While he does come in with it low, if you kept going frame by frame, he brings the handle UP at the apex. Willy does something similar on his offside also.
    Shane "Crash" Hill

  • HortonHorton Posts: 27,168 Administrator
    @ShaneH as does Karina and TW and Taylor M and Nicole Arthor.

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  • dislanddisland Posts: 1,288 Mega Baller
    It would be interesting to look frame by frame and see the movement of the handle relative to the water. As he reaches in the turn the handle will stay at the same level potentialy minimizing handle movement
    Dave Island- Princeton Lakes
    [Deleted User]
  • KillerKiller Posts: 368 ★★★★Quad Panda Award Recipient ★★★★
    Will Asher also incorporates this into his style...

    image
  • A_BA_B Posts: 4,053 Mega Baller
    edited October 2012
    I think it also keeps the turn on edge and slowing down. I know when I am coming into the ball too fast, on my offside, I have a terrible habit of dunking the handle in the water. I notice it is only when I perceive that I am too fast. I normally try to reach high and up with counter rotation, when fast, I throw it down sans counter rotation... I have a partially torn rotator cuff from this stupid move!
  • Chef23Chef23 Posts: 5,890 Mega Baller
    I would like to see the next couple of pictures. I think the handle is down coming into the turn then comes up more to shoulder level in the turn. A friend of mine that takes lessons from Chet Raley was working on the same thing.
    Mark Shaffer
  • A_BA_B Posts: 4,053 Mega Baller
    Google Nate Smith video and there are tons out there on Youtube...
  • BoneHeadBoneHead Posts: 6,028
    The question with Nate is............ Does he intentionally do it, or is it something that just happens.
    Shane "Crash" Hill

    danbirch
  • 6balls6balls Posts: 5,036 ★★★Triple Panda Award Recipient ★★★
    I believe you can catch Andy looking like that as well, and as noted above the movement is almost hand up and slip under at the apex. I've toyed with it some but couldn't get past feeling awkward.
    Dave Ross--die cancer die
  • BG1BG1 Posts: 170 Baller
    This keeps there COM lower for better balance and keeps the line tight. Also, the forward component weights the tip.
    [Deleted User]
  • KillerKiller Posts: 368 ★★★★Quad Panda Award Recipient ★★★★
    I think its a byproduct of 2 things: A. keeping your arm straight and B. keeping the handle in close to your center of mass.

    you dont want to pull in and you want the rope to act as an extension of your belly button. This positioning of the handle allows the ski to complete its arc and maintain a tight line.
  • Skoot1123Skoot1123 Posts: 1,793 Mega Baller
    Here is what I think is going on: he is holding the handle low to keep his connection with the boat. If he were to reach and cast his ski out at this point he would end up skiing inside the turn buoy. This action may be employed when they feel they are coming into the ball a little hot.

    Line management at its best and calmness at the buoy line.
    [Deleted User]
  • WishWish Posts: 7,716 ★★★Triple Panda Award Recipient ★★★
    >>> 11.25..a different kettle of fish. <<<
    Brady
  • WishWish Posts: 7,716 ★★★Triple Panda Award Recipient ★★★
    edited October 2012
    I'm thinking lower center of gravity, tip pressure and handle control (in keeping it close but ther is 0 load) as mentioned above is pretty much it. That really shows in the video.
    >>> 11.25..a different kettle of fish. <<<
    Brady
  • skibugskibug Posts: 2,027
    I agree with @Killer and @Skoot1123. I think this is intentional; but, a result of good handle control and wanting to stay connected to the boat as long as possible. Unfortunately, while it seems rather easy to explain; it is more difficult to execute with any consistency (for me).
    Bob Grizzi
  • skibugskibug Posts: 2,027
    Does this fly in the face of the thought to have a "slow reach" or "feeding the handle out slowly". When I think of a "slow reach" I think about feeding the rope out slowly from a bent arm position to a straight arm for good extension. Maybe it is more of a straight arm movement from low to high? Maybe some one can comment or explain it better?
    Bob Grizzi
  • Chef23Chef23 Posts: 5,890 Mega Baller
    From watching the video it looks like the handle is low coming into the ball then comes up to about shoulder height in the turn. The other thing I think is interesting is that at 41 off there is no early edge change. For the most part Nate is pulling through the second wake at this line length.
    Mark Shaffer
  • WishWish Posts: 7,716 ★★★Triple Panda Award Recipient ★★★
    Guess it works at 34
    .
    .
    >>> 11.25..a different kettle of fish. <<<
  • 6balls6balls Posts: 5,036 ★★★Triple Panda Award Recipient ★★★
    @chef23, I think of edge change as initiation of edge change which is beginning to rise up off the deepest part of the lean rather than when the ski is at the mid point or has transitioned to turning edge. The process of initiation does come early at short line, though one continues on pulling edge as you describe for a period longer. Not sure if that works in anyone elses head, but helps me in terms of where I should begin transition.
    Dave Ross--die cancer die
  • HortonHorton Posts: 27,168 Administrator
    edited October 2012
    Ok so I posted this because I think I understand but am not really sure.

    Keeping the handle down and arm straight from the edge change out seems to :

    Slow the separation of the handle from your center of mass => better tension and further out on the arc
    Assist in keeping your spine more vertical
    Lastly and most confusing it seems to move the skiers mass forward

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  • ToddLToddL Posts: 2,781 Mega Baller
    edited October 2012
    I think it was just a "I look like a bad a$$ when I do this, so I'm gonna do it" pose. Then, everyone said that so-in-so looks like a bad a$$ when they do that, and they started doing it, too.
    -- The future of skiing depends upon welcoming novice skiers regardless of age to our sport.
  • ToddLToddL Posts: 2,781 Mega Baller
    Actually, I agree that it appears to serve to keep the connection with the boat and center of mass.
    -- The future of skiing depends upon welcoming novice skiers regardless of age to our sport.
  • WishWish Posts: 7,716 ★★★Triple Panda Award Recipient ★★★
    I see it differently. I think Nate is 100% disconcerted from the boat (free) in the still shot (and video). The only resistance on the rope is wind. And it stays that way till his boots are under the rope at the finish of the turn. I think its low (controlled to be there) simply as a balance technique at super shortline. There is no line tension to push him any wider once his inside hand comes off the handle. He is 100% connected and perhaps better then most when both hands are on the line which frees him of the boat when he lets go.
    >>> 11.25..a different kettle of fish. <<<
    Texas6
  • ski6jonesski6jones Posts: 940 Crazy Baller
    From the video I don't see a tight line at this point (original pic) in the pass. The rope bows aft (toward the start gates) after the edge change and fore (down course of a line between skier and pylon) when he turns.

    Honestly the line bowing aft looks like the effect of wind resistance on a slightly slack rope, and bowing fore looks like the result of deceleration of the handle on a slightly slack rope, the handle slows down and the ropes momentum causes it to bow forward.

    I'm not saying the line has a lot of slack, because it doesn't, but it's not under tension when it's bowing like that.
    Carl Addington, Lakes of Katy, Texas
    [Deleted User]
  • gregygregy Posts: 2,546 Mega Baller
    edited October 2012
    I started doing this early this past summer with some success for no other reason than I saw Nate and Asher doing it on videos. It happens pretty quick for me so I don't feel like I'm holding the handle down like Nate's picture appears. It helped me establish a rhythm with the handle and turn that I could repeat were I push the handle down and them extend.

    Not sure of the purpose. Lowering COM? Lowering Pull from the Boat on the Body. Allows room to cast the ski out around the bouy? Maybe all of the above or none?

    As far as tension in the line. Seems to me and I me be wrong on this, but Nate seems to take just the right arc where he doesn't get much tension on the handle and at the seem time doesn't get excess slack.

    [Deleted User]Brady
  • DirtDirt Posts: 1,583 Open or 55K Rated Skier
    edited October 2012
    IMO you want to stay connected to the boat as stated above. I would not recommend trying to emulate Nate. For most of us mere mortals, it won't work. He does a bunch of other things that allow him to do this.
    I believe learning to get perfect body position and mechanics and timing would help much more.
    I don't believe it will help me to not let my ski turn all the way, hook up too hard and too early, ski straight at the next buoy (almost forgot...with my hips trailing) and then stick the handle down toward the water. I will still look like crap but the handle will be down like Nate.
    This is not in response to any particular comment. I have just watched this same type of thing trend through the forum many times. Reach high not low, light on the line, etc...
    I learned everything I know not to do from Horton
    [Deleted User]Brady

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