Help with 35off — BallOfSpray Water Ski Forum

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Help with 35off

malibu1608malibu1608 Posts: 3
edited October 2008 in Technique & Theory
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Having trouble getting through 35, have posted a 32 and 35 pass.Skiing at 36mph,on a 66.25 A1.Advice needed?
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<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vQyTGUl_HPk">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vQyTGUl_HPk</a>
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<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SenVuE5IPhA">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SenVuE5IPhA</a>
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Comments

  • HortonHorton Posts: 29,527 Administrator
    First thing I see is that your handle is away from you hips at the wakes and comes out early and fast after the edge change.

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  • RichardDoaneRichardDoane Posts: 4,456 Mega Baller
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    It looks like you're letting the handle get awful low on your 2/4 side, and you're losing a strong body position.  Where is that ski site?
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    BallOfSpray Pacific Northwest Vice President of Event Management, aka "Zappy"
  • RogerRoger Posts: 1,588 Mega Baller
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    I would add that at -32, you're carving your 1,3,5 turns and getting decent (though not great) angle. However, at -35, you begin rushing that side and getting very little angle which is killing your offside turn since you arrive late and fast on that side.
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    To help this, you need to move where the handle is on your offside pull though the gate. If you stop the video in the middle of the gate, your arms have given in to the boat. This means you're being pulled toward one ball (rather than being cast outward) with less angle and more speed than you would have if you could get your handle close to your hips. Your width on the start looks ok to me, you just need to roll all the way in until your handle is at your hips and keep it there until you clear the 2nd wake. If you can do that, you will find yourself very wide and a lot slower at the ball...
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    Roger B. Clark - Okeeheelee skier. Senior driver, Senior Judge
  • Thanks guys I will try and put the advise on the water
  • DaveDDaveD Posts: 930 Mega Baller
    I've heard numerous people mention getting wide  on the pullout.  I got some instruction from a pro this summer.  He said I should only get as wide as the bouy line on my pullout.  Mind you, I was working on 28 off, but he understood my goal of getting through 32off.  What's the reasoning for getting out wider than the bouy line? 
  • RichardDoaneRichardDoane Posts: 4,456 Mega Baller
    get wide, stay wide
    BallOfSpray Pacific Northwest Vice President of Event Management, aka "Zappy"
  • Thomas WayneThomas Wayne Posts: 550 New Baller
    edited October 2008
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    "Get wide" is how it's commonly said, but I think the real goal is to <em>ski up on the boat</em> in your pullout (and all subsequent buoys). So if the rope is at -35', then just about as wide as 2-4-6 may be enough. But if the rope is -28' you need to think more in terms of being up alongside the platform (at the very least), or even up to the motor box. In my opinion there's no such thing as starting from too wide.
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    It's very evident that your rhythm for the entire run is often determined by your pullout and gate. If you start behind you finish behind - if you finish at all. Of course, this is not true for every single skier - Andy Mapple, for example, can easily start from very narrow and still finish well. But why handicap yourself if you don't have to?
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    I personally think that most skiers neglect skiing way up on the boat because their instincts tell them they need to shut down the pullout and get ready for the turn toward the gate. The real irony of that thinking is that the farther up on the boat you are when you turn in, the greater angle and speed you can develop - and with less effort, too.
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    TW
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    (PS: My thinking on this subject has been greatly influenced by the writings of Bruce Butterfield, and in applying the advice he has offered over the years I have found great benefit - I'm sure if he weighs in here he can do a better job of explaining the concept than I.)
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  • scokescoke Posts: 681 Crazy Baller
    edited October 2008
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    Hey Malibu 1608:
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     Second half of the season I have been giving 35 a crack and the feedback has all been about the same:
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    Ian Trapp: Fix/tweak that gate, it'll be easy
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     SkiDawg: Fix that gate, it's easy.
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    Chad Scott: Turn in one ski length earlier, nice and easy and hammer behind the boat.
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     Since I keep hearing the same thing I have actually started to try it. Makes a world of difference. A good gate at <a href="mailto:[email protected]">[email protected]</a> is crucial as if you start "bad-hot", one bobble and you'll be out of the game. With a good gate, a bobble and you can stick with it.
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  • Bruce_ButterfieldBruce_Butterfield Posts: 1,753 Member of the BallOfSpray Hall Of Fame
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    The width on the gate wasn't that bad, but you could be wider. The first thing I saw was that the intensity from about 10' after your turn in to the middle of the wakes was the same. The intensity needs to increase (smoothly) from the turn in to past the wakes - you let up in the middle of the gates.
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    Next item is your arms are out. You want the handle close to your waist all during your leans to the point where you start your reach. Once you get that, you can work on counter-rotation and keeping your head and shoulders level.
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    In general terms, more width on the gates is better. What happens to many skiers when they get wide is they turn in too hard, too fast and let up right behind the boat. That puts them fast and narrow into 1 and they complain that a wide gate doesn't work. The key is to get wide, but turn in smoothly and progressively. Think of it as the speed of your turn in will match your speed into 1, and the width on the gate establishes your angle for the entire course. So a wide gate with a smooth turn in will put you wide, early, and slow into 1.
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    I'm Ancient. WTH do I know?
  • AliAli Posts: 194 Baller
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    As usual some great advice from Bruce. "<font><font size="2">Think of it as the speed of your turn in will match your speed into 1" had a light bulb going off for me. </font></font>
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    cheers
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    Ali
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  • JayJay Posts: 64
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    okay so I just got back from getting some coaching down south and have issues with running 35 also. The biggest thing that I was told besides the usual counter, lead with your hips more spiel was the fact of where I pull out for the gates and speed into and through 0 ball. I was pulling out in a similar palce as you just around the 55's, the first thing that got changed was that I should be pulling out at least 1 boat length past the 55's and closer to 2 boat lengths as the rope gets shorter yet. This wasn't exactly a cponcept that I felt comfortable with but it worked! The concept is to carry the speed you create out in your pullout through 0 buoy and back towards 1. when you look at your video you have a glide before you turn back in which is bleeding speed and not helping you carry direction out, same thing I was doing, speed creates width and eleviates being late. My turn around 0 ball was probably 10 - 15' ish before the gates which was way later than what I was doing before. I ran 35 for the first time and had some of the widest earliest 32 passes ever. All about speed!!!
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     Make sense? <img src="/vanillaforum/js/tinymce/jscripts/tiny_mce/plugins/emotions/images/smiley-undecided.gif" border="0" alt="Undecided" title="Undecided" />
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  • AndreAndre Posts: 1,519 Mega Baller
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    Congrats on the 35 off!!!
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    Must have been a great feeling...<img src="/vanillaforum/js/tinymce/jscripts/tiny_mce/plugins/emotions/images/smiley-smile.gif" border="0" alt="Smile" title="Smile" />
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  • jay, was that late pullout with a one handed gate. ?
  • JayJay Posts: 64
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    Thanks Andre! Runnin it was awesome! Pretty pumped about it!
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    And yes it was a one handed gate.
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  • This advice has been fantastic .Thankyou to all.This website is terrific great job.Have been pulling out for gates a  little later (pre gates just going past back of boat) and trying to get more width for turn in.Also to be a lot stronger through the wakes,and it seems to be helping a lot IF I can put it all together,a lot earlier and lighter on rope at 1 ball,just the next 5 balls can be a problem.Going to try and get on the water today, starting to warm up quickly down here in the southern hemisphere.
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