two handed gate question — BallOfSpray Water Ski Forum

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two handed gate question

alex38alex38 Posts: 508 Baller
edited October 2008 in Technique & Theory
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As I get better and smoother at shorter line lengths, the gate technique becomes more and more critical. I have approached it with a few different theories and have had some success but not much consistency. I skied the other day and tried something that leads to my question. Everyone keeps saying "don't pull so hard thru the gate". So I tried turning in for the gate wicked early but really slow...the gate seemed more in front of me then to the side of me, I thought I was gonna miss it completely but I slid right thru and was early for 1.
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My question is this...if ti makes any sense,
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On a two-handed gate at 34 mph, just before turning in for the gate what degree angle should the right hand gate ball be positioned from my vision?
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For instance, I have always thought it should be like a 90 degree angle, thats how you get speed and angle, but that seems to be releasing me down course on the other side of the wake. The other day i tried more like a 45 degree angle and just stayed very light on the pull until I was at the gate.
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Comments

  • bkobko Posts: 36 Baller
    <p>
    No - it doesn't work that way. When you turn in early, slow and with that little angle you might end up with nice and easy one balls but you will not stand a chance the come out of #2 in a decent way - your ski will be too slow! It does work like a pendulum after all.
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  • WadeWilliamsWadeWilliams Posts: 19
    edited October 2008
    Optimally you will position yourself directly to the left of the gate. In a perfect world you would be able to ski @ 90 degrees cross course angle. You would start right next to the gate and have a <em>continually progressive</em> edge into the wake. So you wouldn't have 90 degrees of angle, but you would fall into more and more and more as you got close to the gate. If technology and physicis allowed us to, you'd be able to achieve this.



    BUT, you can't. The most cross course angle you will ever, ever have on your hardest cut is 60 degrees.



    You were almost to a break through when you nearly missed your gate. You have to keep it early and easy to be able to feel what you need to feel to bring your gate to the next level. Once you get the feel for the progressive edge then you can start moving it down (later and later) but as soon as you cut at it you've lost.



    The best skiers in the world can begin their turn-in about 7-12 feet upcourse of the gate.... meaning from apex of the gate turn to the time they split it,  they've only moved downcourse a little bit. The less you can go down course, the more you can go up [across] course.





    More at <a href="http://www.proskicoach.com">Pro Ski Coach</a>
  • alex38alex38 Posts: 508 Baller
    <p>
    Thank you, very interesting. If the most angle you can get on your hardest cut is 60 degrees, what is the least amount one needs to be early enough to make a pass comfortably? 50? 45?
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    Sounds like I'm on the right track at least, would like to see a scale drawing of a course and the coordinates of a skier getting a perfect gate.
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  • Chef23Chef23 Posts: 6,051 Mega Baller
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    Alex one of the things I have been working on is beginning the turn in earlier and letting the ski turn in more to generate more angle then holding that angle instead of trying to stop the boat with my pull.  This is getting me earlier and what feels like slower at the ball.  Before I was turning in later and rushing it then loading the ski right away and I was inconsistent and later.  When I do it right I get set up much earlier for 1 ball and the pass is much easier.
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     My turn in point has changed from the windshield of the boat to 5-7ft before the nose of the boat hits the left boat gate (LFF).  I am still working to find the exact turn in point I can replicate every time.
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    Mark Shaffer
  • thagerthager Posts: 5,004 Mega Baller
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    Chef,
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    You need to start your turn in at a point that is constant boat type to boat type with the two hand. Only thing constant there will be to use the pylon in relation to the boat gate or else use Schnitz's bouy line up for the turn in. 
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    Stir vigorously then leave!
  • RichardDoaneRichardDoane Posts: 4,456 Mega Baller
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    What's Schnitz's bouy line-up ?
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    BallOfSpray Pacific Northwest Vice President of Event Management, aka "Zappy"
  • Thomas WayneThomas Wayne Posts: 550 New Baller
    <p>
    Pull out to 2-4-6 width, turn in when the left hand gate ball aligns with the 1-ball (from the skier's POV).  If I remember correctly, he has a specific point to begin your pullout as well - something like <em>"coast along at the edge of the foam and begin your pullout when the left gate ball aligns with the 5-ball".</em>
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    It's imperfect, IMO, but can be used with minor tweaks to produce a consistent gate.  I don't personally think it's an optimum gate, but it will be consistent.
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    TW 
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  • Chef23Chef23 Posts: 6,051 Mega Baller
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    thager,
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    <p>
     Thanks for the thought on that.  I have been struggling with consistent turn in since I moved it back so far.  I tend to just ski on my lake behind the same kind of boat (we all have Malibu Responses) but I like having something that is consistent.  Unfortunately my boat is out of the water for the year so I have all winter to think about it.
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    Mark Shaffer
  • robertoroberto Posts: 85 Baller
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    I agree with BKO. I have  tried the the early slow turn with added hip twist through the gates. I got some great one balls, early and slow. But! Could never hang onto the hit or the tip stall that broke me out of position, by 2 ball I was fighting.
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    Watch the pro's,  the recent video of Karina equalling the WR and Waterskimags session at the Swiss skis school last year. They  had a camera on a high tower, great video of the set up and one. Never saw one of those guys take it easy to one. David Nelsons analysis on Schnitz's site shows Mapple and co going faster through the gates than at any other stage in the course. Shame he didnt analyse the set up more.
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    What I have learnt, but not perfected this year, is the trick is to keep the speed on the set up. A later pull out, less glide and time the turn in so you turn at max width. (Being a RFF, it's very easy to loose the width, the tendency is to drift in). (Reach), Get it turned, and change edge through the wakes.
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    The speed will keep the load off the line, allowing the ski to come underneath you and keep the outbound direction. Dead easy! (But its not!)  LL use to teach that it is the same as 2 ball. Watch the Parrish video at 39 off, out, reach,go!  In essence getting round one with more speed allows you to keep your body position, stay open longer and generate angle were you can hold it ...closer to the wakes. Which goes back to another thread on BOS! Fascinating.... their must be a common link... maybe JTH should write a book with all the collective experience from this site. (Benzels was the last one I bought in 1988.)
    </p>
    mylemsky
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