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rodltg2rodltg2 Posts: 1,051 Crazy Baller
edited April 2013 in Boat Talk
So I had my 99 CC out yesterday. Ran it for my first set , business as usual. About an hour later , no one left at lake so I decided to go grab my frisbee while I waited for other members to show. Drove the boat down to the other end of the lake to my truck. On the way back , right around 5 ball the boat just quit. Tried to re start a few times no luck. Thought maybe out gas. Gauge read over 1/4 tank. Opened the gas cap and rocked the boat and could hear gas swishing around. So that's not it. I tried another re start with no luck.Got the boat back to the dock and figured I was going to have to call the owner of the lake to tell him it was staying in the dock over night. About 20 minutes later I decided to give it one last try and boom. It started. Ran fine for two more sets without issue. I was thinking possibly fuel pump or lanyard.

Fast forward to today I pull the lanyard and turn the key. Boat fired right up ! So either the lanyard is goofing up or the previous owner by passed it.


  • BraceMakerBraceMaker Posts: 4,620 Mega Baller
    My boat did something crazy too - got a call from the folks, they were on the lake with the engine dead. Got in a different boat and went out with tools.

    fiddled around with everything - fuel, filters, spark etc.

    Pulled lanyard off and on, nothing, pushed button on lanyard in and it started.

    Hmm.. thought the red clip might be weak- shimmed, still died.

    Pulled the switch, someone had bypassed, but had not crimped the bypass junction well, and when you pushed in on the button you pushed the wires together, boat would run.

    Point being - you have to check what someone did - I would never have known the switch was bypassed, and poorly at that.
  • WishWish Posts: 8,241 ★★★Triple Panda Award Recipient ★★★
    edited April 2013
    Look for a by pass. I had this exact issue. Not by pass but a funky kill switch for the lanyard. @Jody Seal suggested that this is what the problem was. Many other suggestions in that thread I posted for this. As usual, @Jody the boat whisperer was correct. It was the switch. They just go bad. Common for that age boat. I actually did not replace mine (yet) cause a dime sliped between the lanyard and the switch seems to be doing the trick (also suggested by the boat whisperer). Search Kill switch on the site. You should find threads on this.
    >>> 11.25..a different kettle of fish. <<<
  • Texas6Texas6 Posts: 2,197
    Another possible temporary fix is known as the 10 cent fix. Take a dime and put it between the lanyard and the switch and push the lanyard back on over the dime. Sometimes the switch gets loose and doesn't make a strong connection and the 10 cent fix gives it enough pressure to make a better connection. You will still want to investigate the switch and possibly bypass or replace, but this usually suffices in the interim. Good luck
    Daryn Dean - Lakes of Katy, TX
    ***Robbed out of Hundreds of Panda Worthy Posts***
  • A_BA_B Posts: 4,302 Mega Baller
    edited April 2013
    After the boat has sat, open the engine cover and turn the ignition on, but do not engage the starter. Do you hear the fuel pumps prime? If not, you can jump the lanyard relays by pulling them off and holding together, just make sure you see where they go, there are more than two posts on the back of the lanyard, and they need to be on the correct posts.

    Then retry the above test. If they prime and can start the boat, it was the lanyard. If no prime, then my money would be the fuel pump relay on the back of the motor. They go bad intermittently and unless you have been through it, can drive you batty figuring it out. The relays are cheaper than a lanyard if I remember correctly.
  • east tx skiereast tx skier Posts: 598 Solid Baller
    edited April 2013
    After fiddling with mine for the last couple of years, it finally went belly up on me this month, and I had to bypass it. Will need to order another one soon I suppose.

    Rod, if you eliminate the lanyard as an issue and your boat continues to run fine and just quits, but starts up later with no issues, but soon quits again, you might also check the antisiphon valve. They can collect varnish and stick.

    Also, check the small hose inside the FCC to be sure it hasn't torn.
    Perpetual Longline Baller and curvy ski boat owner.
    My real name is in my profile.

  • 6balls6balls Posts: 5,633 Mega Baller
    Check fuel screen on the intake hose that is in your tank as well.
    Dave Ross--die cancer die
  • A_BA_B Posts: 4,302 Mega Baller
    edited April 2013
    Guys, the key is to listen for the fuel pumps first. IF they are priming, then go through all the rest of the drill. If they are not priming, I found there could be 3 highly likely things. 1 - the kill switch, so bypass it. 2 - the relays - have to get a new one, and I would recommend that everyone with a late 90's PCM to carry an extra relay. 3- the ECM can go bad and cause intermittent power to the relays and fuel pumps.

    I went through this on my '99 GT40 and drove me freakin nuts. I jumped the kill switch, and the intermittent relay issue was not a problem after I jumped it, so I thought it was a kill switch. Next trip to the lake, we had to float the boat on the trailer. Replaced the relay and it ran great for 2 seasons.

    Started having problems again, so went thorugh the relays, kill switch, etc., and I also replaced the anti-siphon valve, dropped the fuel tank and completely blew out with air, and replaced the FCC, with high-pressure fuel pump, and the low pressure pump. Turned out the ECM was bad. If I tapped on it, the fuel pumps would prime, crazy stuff!

    If the pumps are working, the ECM could cause them to cut out while under power. I hooked up a fuel pump pressure guage and my engine would start, and then the pressure would jump all over. This was driven by the ECM going whacky.

    If you know that the pumps are running well, and the boat cuts out, then you could have a fuel supply issue, so the filter, anti siphon, can all come into play. If you haven't changed the filter in the FCC, and a lot of guys don't even know where this is, that is a good place to start.

    The key is listen for the pumps!! Learn from my mistakes :)

  • east tx skiereast tx skier Posts: 598 Solid Baller
    @AB, I remember your pulling your hair out over this. Glad to see you finally got it sorted. I have heard it said that 90% of issues with the GT-40 are fuel delivery related.

    So, in your case, you listened for the fuel pump to come on when you turned the key on, and you would hear it? But the ECM was dying a a slow death and would cause both pumps to conk out at random?
    Perpetual Longline Baller and curvy ski boat owner.
    My real name is in my profile.

  • A_BA_B Posts: 4,302 Mega Baller
    Yes. I took video of the fuel pump pressure in my driveway and all would be okay, and then all over the place. Shut it off, then pumps wouldn't prime,,and then eventually found if I tapped on the back of the ECM, the pumps would prime. I bought a Ford code reader, tested all the circuits per the PCM Troubleshooting manual, which most mechanics say you rule everything else out, as there is no error code for a bad ECM. My recommendation, if you have a GT 40, and plan on keeping it, buy an extra ECM now. They are getting scarce. The easiest check would be to swap out ECM with a buddy, but all 3 guys that I ski with sold their GT40's and got newer SN's. Major PITA.
  • rodltg2rodltg2 Posts: 1,051 Crazy Baller
    You guys are scaring me with the ECM failure talk. ! Sound pricey . Hope it's just the lanyard.
  • A_BA_B Posts: 4,302 Mega Baller
    Emergency Cut-Off Switch (less harsh than Kill Switch), $22 or fuel pump relay $15.

  • east tx skiereast tx skier Posts: 598 Solid Baller
    If mine goes down, I'll consider repowering. After that sticker shock, I'll go back and find a NOS ECM somewhere. I'll feel better about it when I compare the cost of the ECM to a repower.

    Hoping that once the NOS disappears, we'll get someone producing/programming new ones again, either PCM or by license (or better, aftermarket tuner that cracks it).
    Perpetual Longline Baller and curvy ski boat owner.
    My real name is in my profile.

  • A_BA_B Posts: 4,302 Mega Baller
    I sold my '99 when my lake co-owner bought a '07 SN with ZO, and we decided to share ownership.
    The '99 was an awesome boat. Sad to see her go. The '99 outran the '07 in several side by side comparisons. With the new electronics and fuel parts, it should run strong for many years.
  • rodltg2rodltg2 Posts: 1,051 Crazy Baller
    Well I don't think its the pump, I can hear it prime. How do I check those other items? Anti Siphon valve, FCC hose etc.?

    Boat is running fine now, with out issue.
  • A_BA_B Posts: 4,302 Mega Baller
    That is my point. The relay will work on and off. Next time the boat dies, immediately lift the motor box and listen for the pumps to prime or not. If they prime, you are more than half way to figuring it out.

    I would also carry a piece of wire with two male electrical connectors that you can unplug the wires going into the back of the lanyard and pop them on so it is bypassed. For the cost of a new relay, I would also carry that as a spare, if I knew what I know now, so a day at the lake wouldn't be spoiled by a bad relay. There are two of the same on the back of the engine, and I think the fuel pump relay has green yellow wires going into it. I would have to look at some of my notes though... Easy enough to change out both in a few minutes.

    The anti-siphon valve on top of the tank is a little check ball that can gummed up. Mine was never a problem, even though I bought a new one, and cleaned the old one out with brake cleaner.

    How old is your fuel filter? The new e gas mix kills them, I am told.

  • rodltg2rodltg2 Posts: 1,051 Crazy Baller
    Okay so now I can begin to diagnose I guess. I'm out at the lake and now the boat won't start. Sucks because its dead calm and 90 degrees. It started doing it yesterday but It would eventually start. Now nothing. I can hear fuel pump priming and I have jumped the lanyard. So I guess those two items are not the problem.
  • A_BA_B Posts: 4,302 Mega Baller
    Well, you eliminated the most troublesome component, the relays, as a problem.

    Now it still can be gas supply issue, or electic, but I'm afraid you won't like where the electric can lead to.

    If you have a fuel pump pressure gauge, there is a plugin port on the fuel rail up under the main manifold. Mine was on driver side in front part of engine, looks like a tire stem. There are two lines at the base of where a carb would sit, and you can follow them to find it. . You can plug into the fitting and crank the engine and see if there is good fuel pressure. Should be up around 30-40psi, don't remember for sure, but you will see zero if blocked or pumps not performing.

    If you are getting good pressure, you can pass on pulling the fuel filter, anti siphon valve, etc., and focus on an electrical issue. You can pull a spark plug and ground on block and check for spark. Make sure you are Ina ventilated area.

    For kicks, tap on your ECM and see if that does anything..
  • rodltg2rodltg2 Posts: 1,051 Crazy Baller
    Here is my view as I rowed my boat to the other end to the ramp.

    photo image_zps83910c53.jpg
  • GaryWilkinsonGaryWilkinson Posts: 356 Solid Baller
    Holy crap. I'm laughing and crying for you at the same time!

    Sorry, I have nothing to add to help other than it may be time for a new motherboard. Ouch
    And a beer at the dock when you get there.
    Hope the engine gods smile down on you today.
    I need to ski back to the handle obviously.
  • A_BA_B Posts: 4,302 Mega Baller
    This will give you an idea of what I went through on my boat a year or so ago.
  • rodltg2rodltg2 Posts: 1,051 Crazy Baller
    Switched the relay switches and boat fired up. Hopefully that's the end of that ! Now I need to find one to replace the bad one. Where do I get the relay.
  • A_BA_B Posts: 4,302 Mega Baller
    SkiDim gives 10% discount for AWSA members. White Lake Marine, gives Planet Nautique discount code for 10%. Most dealers would stock as well.
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