If anybody needs some soreness

Than_BoganThan_Bogan Posts: 7,054 Mega Baller
edited April 2013 in Technique & Theory
I have plenty to spare.

Early season is awesome and awful. So glad to be back on the water; so far to go.
Nathaniel Bogan -- GUT Padawan


  • Chef23Chef23 Posts: 6,065 Mega Baller
    You need to work out more in the off season.
    Mark Shaffer
  • Ed_JohnsonEd_Johnson Posts: 2,304
    Sooooooo, Sooooo, true....Just wait, it gets worse as you get older !!!
    Special Thanks to Performance Ski and Surf and the Denali Adam's !!!
  • WishWish Posts: 8,547 ★★★Triple Panda Award Recipient ★★★
    During one of my college winters in MN, my brother in law was taking graduate classes for exercise physiology. As a project, he tailored a workout through the spring for me as a skier. Thought this was great. Now I wont be so damn sore when spring skiing. Not so. Falling down a flight of stairs is a very good analogy. Made no difference at all. I am convinced that nothing can simulate what the body goes through when skiing.
    >>> 11.25..a different kettle of fish. <<<
  • mwetskiermwetskier Posts: 1,337 Mega Baller
    nothing ive ever done working out came close to the more than 600 lbs ive seen terry winter pull on the west coast slalom video maybe thats why were still sore after skiing
  • thagerthager Posts: 5,569 Mega Baller
    If a person included installing a dock and a boat lift with your normal workout you would be very close to the right exercise program. I can barely move! Falling off the dock with a big splash simulated a wipeout. Putting your arm out to stop the fall imitates the reach. Embarrassing even if nobody but the squirrels and loons saw you!!!
    Stir vigorously then leave!
  • MrJonesMrJones Posts: 1,839 Mega Baller
    I wrote a piece for Horton a couple of years ago about this. Skiing requires a great deal of eccentric muscle contraction. This is where the muscle fibers are getting longer as they are attempting to fire. In weightlifting this is commonly called a "negative" and creates more load/damage/soreness in comparison to a concentric contraction which is what you are doing in the gym. Very hard to mimic in the total body fashion that skiing requires.

    At 44 I have had very little soreness this spring after 4 months off. If possible, start slow. A few sets of free skiing, then a few skiing only your opening rope length. I understand if you are MS and in FL for a few days this may not be possible, but if you can it should help.
  • WishWish Posts: 8,547 ★★★Triple Panda Award Recipient ★★★
    The only other "sport" for me that's mimicked skiing muscle soreness has been indoor rock climbing. I think it has to do with what @Ed_Johnson and @MrJones are saying. You do not notice the amount of absolute physical and mental exertion you put into climbing and clinging to a wall 4 stories up. I would assume it is also an eccentric muscle contraction. Every core and limb muscle plus grip is engaged the entire climb. There is no "rest". Challenging yourself only requires moving to a pre designed higher skill level wall rout. Like skiing, you can let go anytime (harnessed of course, not splat) and be done. But you dont. You find yourself climbing/clinging until one hand or one foot slips and you fall. Bad form, inefficiency and exhaustion are the main reasons for a fall. Many times I've completed a climb and been lowered only to find myself shaking. Very very sore the next day in all the similar places.

    @MrJones. I learned a new term or two from your post. Thanks. Not to steal the thread but do you or anyone have any remedies (besides ice and anti-inflammatory) to elevate the eccentric muscle contraction next day soreness we all get?
    >>> 11.25..a different kettle of fish. <<<
  • crashmancrashman Posts: 722 Crazy Baller
    I'm a believer in coenzyme Q 10- seems to speed muscle recovery but it could be placebo effect.
    slalom addiction triggering irrational behavior
  • Chef23Chef23 Posts: 6,065 Mega Baller
    I skied three sets in the course over Easter after not really skiing since October two on one day a day off then a third. I didn't feel like I would mid season. I started one pass easier than my usual opener and I skied into one pass short of my PB. I couldn't have skied 3 sets a day 4 days in a row but on the whole I didn't feel any worse than I do after a hard workout. My workouts may not be the same as skiing but I feel as well prepared to ski as I have ever been.
    Mark Shaffer
  • BraceMakerBraceMaker Posts: 5,142 Mega Baller
    @wish -- climbing is great, but mostly concentric and isometric, unless you are climbing down. Controlled decent.

    Riding a fixed gear bike with no brakes is a good example, we avoid these activities but are naturally strong at them.
  • SkiJaySkiJay Posts: 2,314 Mega Baller
    This is a well timed thread @Than_Bogan. No doubt @MrJones hit the nail on the head saying "start slow." I made the mistake of getting sucked into an informal "competition" with my guest, and we've both paid the price for going at it too hard too soon.
    www.FinWhispering.com ... Your ski should be your dance partner, not a wrestling opponent
  • SkiJaySkiJay Posts: 2,314 Mega Baller
    UPDATE: Day 4 - The benefits of being in good shape before returning to skiing after a layoff became apparent. Day 2 hurt, day 3 was downright painful, but the recovery between day 3 and day 4 was astounding. With only minor residual soreness, day 4 was right back on track. Working out definitely pays off.
    www.FinWhispering.com ... Your ski should be your dance partner, not a wrestling opponent
  • JoepruncJoeprunc Posts: 315 Baller
    I love this post, as I am so sore myself that it is painful just typing this post. I found I slightly over did it this weekend:
    70 mile dirt bike ride: Saturday
    1 open water set: Sunday
    2 course sets: Sunday
    (Zero working out in the past month)

    I now can't walk up or downstairs, but have a smile from ear to ear. Can't wait till next weekend.

    I have found dirt biking, especially motocross helps me the most with my skiing fitness, and vice versa. I'd much rather do my workouts outside.
  • Skoot1123Skoot1123 Posts: 2,174 Mega Baller
    There is absolutely nothing that can get you as sore in as little time as waterskiing. Not even P90X will get you that sore. However, I will say that P90X will substantially limit the amount of soreness you get from that first set. Basically it was sore for day one and not sore on day two. That was last year. This year may be different..... time will tell.
  • WishWish Posts: 8,547 ★★★Triple Panda Award Recipient ★★★
    @BraceMaker how is climbing down different. I've climbed down walls. Seemed way easier. @crashman, any links you can provide for coenzyme Q 10.
    >>> 11.25..a different kettle of fish. <<<
  • Than_BoganThan_Bogan Posts: 7,054 Mega Baller
    For the sake of completeness, I'm pretty happy with where I am. I've been at this long enough to know what this part of the year is normally like for me, and I'm doing better than average in terms of feel, strength, soreness, recovery, etc.

    But it's still a long road from here to hopefully taking -39 a little more seriously this season!
    Nathaniel Bogan -- GUT Padawan
  • BraceMakerBraceMaker Posts: 5,142 Mega Baller
    @wish - it does feel easy doesn't it? Make it harder. When decending, have the belay keep you on slack, then lower yourself grip by grip starting with your fingers grasping the hold, and slowly extending your fingers lowering yourself. See how long your hands hold out.

    An example of how you could train eccentrically as opposed to concentrically would be knee extensions at a somewhat lowered weight, doing the extension as per usual (two legged) but lower the weight eccentrically by slowly lowering it using one leg (pick a weight you can control slowly with one leg) and as always consult a trainer for your specific training.

    It is similar to some fundamentals from super slow - and was useful in improving my leg strength post femur fx.
  • WaternutWaternut Posts: 1,517 Crazy Baller
    @wish I agree climbing is very similar and the soreness never really goes away after climbing. I also think that climbing is one of the only sports that has actually helped my skiing. Due to the grip and core strength required for both, I feel like climbing and skiing help each other. Skiing has helped my mountain biking but I don't think it really works the other way except for maybe biking has kept me in decent shape through the winter.

    For me, extra protein has been my savior for soreness especially in the early season. As long as recovery time is less than 24 hours, that's the most important part to me.
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