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Looking for some more help

WaternutWaternut Posts: 1,511 Crazy Baller
Here is my latest. The passes are 30, 32, and the other two are 34mph. Really bad gates today but that's another issue. I still feel like I'm too far back on the ski especially on 1,3,5 but despite multiple attempts and a few OTF's, I can't seem to get forward in the turns without either biting off too much and getting pulled forward or coming out of the buoy with so much angle that I can't hang on. Any tips?


  • KcSwerverKcSwerver Posts: 389 Baller
    Bend your knees a little more, in your perturn, shift your weight to the front of the ski to slow it down a little, and then decisively comit to your secondary (bouy) turn and let the ski do its work! You look like you are forcing the ski around the turns which will then stall the ski at the end of the turn, which causes lots of tip, leaving you off center which will make you want to sit on the back of your ski, creating a vicious cycle.

    Summary, 1.) don't force your turns 2.) stay centered with eyes and shoulders level.

    Hope this helps!
  • WaternutWaternut Posts: 1,511 Crazy Baller
    Ok I'll work on bending my knees a bit more. Guess I've always kind of stiff legged it into the turns as a way to brace for the load of the boat.
  • aswinter05aswinter05 Posts: 363 Baller
    Looks like you are doing something I've had problems with. Be a little more patient with your edge change. Make sure you are pulling through both wakes on edge. Lots of pop off that first wake from letting up just a tad bit too early.

    In order to stay on edge, it helps me to remember my "work zone". April Coble told me to keep that ski on edge not just through both wakes, but from "white-wash to white-wash". All your work should be done there at your speeds and 15-off.

    You're still getting nice and wide to the buoys. But I think you can get even wider and have a smoother wake cross.
  • 94009400 Posts: 644 Crazy Baller
    I'll go the other way. Be taller over your front foot. Most people, when thinking about bending knees tend to sit on the back of their ski. You need your weight more centered over your feet.
    The more centered/connected you get, the easier it will be for you to get through the wakes cleaner/faster.
    Don't think about slowing down. Speed is your friend, improper direction is the enemy.
  • ForrestGumpForrestGump Posts: 6,136
    edited June 2013
    Body position, body position, body position. The turns are there just link two crosscourse movements. You lose your stack going outbound so that by the time you reach, your shoulders are already ahead of your hips. You won't fix the turns until you fix what happens before the turns.
    Shane "Crash" Hill

  • WaternutWaternut Posts: 1,511 Crazy Baller
    Hmmm thanks. I'll work on this stuff today. Someone else told me I needed to carry my edge through the wakes a bit longer. It's probably a mindset change that I need to make but I feel like if I hold my edge longer, then I'm going so fast into the buoy that I'm 5-10 feet wider than the buoy as I pass it because I can't change directions quick enough. Then because I hooked up so wide, I carry more and more speed into the following buoys and eventually I end up eating it or just going straight at the buoy because I can't turn at that speed.
  • KillerKiller Posts: 443 ★★★★Quad Panda Award Recipient ★★★★
    What Shane said. Get into that stacked body position in your pullout and work on maintaining it all the way through each stage of the course. It appears you are I imitating you turn in with your head and shoulder, and possibly your back foot. This will carry through the rest of your run. With that stack Shane talks about I try to have almost all my weight on my front foot in my gate pull out, glide and turn in. Something that Jodi Fisher worked with me on(and most others), with great success. Good skiing, you have a lot of good fundamentals, get that body position right and you'll progress much faster.
  • PatRePatRe Posts: 72 Baller
    @Waternut Before I forget, please consider lowering those buoys.

    Ok, I meant to comment on your previous video and now see things are moving nicely in the right direction. If your lake is long enough, I'd recommend some gate changes. Start your out-move earlier and more intense to cast you out further. You'll be outside the 2, 4, 6 line earlier and with more speed. (Sorry, your speed might be alright but its hard to tell with a slow motion video but looking at your out-move makes me think more ski speed would help). It seems you drift in a bit before the turn-in for the gates. A more intense out-move will allow you to stand up with your ski on the left edge (by keeping your left shoulder facing out, more squared VS closed). To get more stacked advancing towards the gates, continue starting your slow roll in with the handle close and let it extend (arms start to straighten) and keep your elbows relaxed to your vest. This should allow the handle to find its place. Now do pretty much nothing. Stay very quiet and let the boat do your work. Keep that position and subsequent edge longer. In the video you should be able to see the bottom of your ski well into / past the second white water with 2 hands on the handle close to your core. This will help with your outbound and develop & maintain more (controlled) speed. Your left elbow should be well bent (right angle) still with both hands on the handle well after getting on the turning edge into buoy 1, 3, 5. The same is true for the right elbow going into 2, 4, 6.

    If a more intense out-move produces what seems to be too much speed, still, do not rush anything. Simply start your (slow) turn-in the same way but earlier and let the pressure build by itself as always.

    Sorry this post is getting a bit long.

    In summary, try:
    1. Earlier & more intense out-move. It will give you more speed & width and allow you to pick your spot to roll in for the gates.
    2. Don't let your shoulders rotate towards the gate during the glide.
    3. Slowly roll in for the gates (before your speed diminishes to less than the boat) and rest your elbows to your vest while allowing your arms to relax and go straight. The handle should find its place and you'll be stacked.
    4. Don't let your outside shoulder rotate in as you approach the buoys.

    You can try the described wake crossings without buoys and without attaching any turns. Use video even if not in the course. Keep up the great work and please keep us posted.

    That's a beautiful site!
  • WishWish Posts: 8,137 ★★★Triple Panda Award Recipient ★★★
    What @PatRe said about the buoys. If thats a portable course, consider smaller buoys half filled with water. Those are very intimidating balls. Also what @ShaneH said.
    >>> 11.25..a different kettle of fish. <<<
  • WaternutWaternut Posts: 1,511 Crazy Baller
    It's a permanent course and we did lower the buoys today. I've skied 6 sets since this and I think it's coming together. I meant to take the camera today but forgot until I was already on the road. I'll try to remember next time. Holding my edge longer and completing the edge change closer to the buoy has been the hardest part but I think I'm getting it.
  • Than_BoganThan_Bogan Posts: 6,808 Mega Baller
    There are a couple of pieces of dubious advice in this thread, but Killer already passed out some Dislikes so I won't pile on.

    @ShaneH is 100% right; I have nothing to add there.

    But you asked one question above that I don't think anyone ever answered, and it's a core misconception that many people have.

    @Waternut wrote: "I feel like if I hold my edge longer, then I'm going so fast into the buoy that I'm 5-10 feet wider than the buoy as I pass it because I can't change directions quick enough..."

    The opposite is true. If you build more speed and more angle through roughly the 2nd wake, then you will arrive at the buoy with MORE SPACE. This will then FEEL like you are going extremely slowly, even though your peak speed is actually quite a bit greater than it was with an inferior stack and letting up too early.

    Whenever I *feel* like I'm going too fast, I know it's because I didn't generate enough speed and angle to create the proper space.

    That said, I'm not sure I like the terminology in that quote. "hold edge longer" is a little misleading. I prefer to think of it as getting into a really good stacked position and staying there until it is time to transition into a turn.
    Nathaniel Bogan -- GUT Padawan
  • Skoot1123Skoot1123 Posts: 1,986 Mega Baller
    One other contributor to "feeling fast at the buoy" is because we get flat on the ski and end up getting pulled downcourse by the boat instead of being free from the boat. Wide and early feels like it is slow - I love that feeling because then I know I am doing something right! (for a change)
  • WaternutWaternut Posts: 1,511 Crazy Baller
    @than_bogan Thanks for the insight and I have definitely noticed what you talk about. I have also really noticed that what people say and what they actually mean don't always yield the same translation. It helps getting different perspectives on the same problems though as one of them will eventually click. I interpret "getting wide" as being wide at the buoy which kills my chances of running the pass but really if I'm wide before the buoy then I can make a nice smooth turn at the buoy and get into a good pulling position through the wakes. Then I'll be wide at the next buoy but it's taken me some time to figure that out.

    My ski partner convinced to me to get excessively wide at 1 ball yesterday and I was going so slow at the ball even at 36mph that I practically sunk. Even then I do feel it's less about actually being wide and more about generating lots of speed and angle through the wakes to carry you wide but that's just my fairly uneducated view on it.
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