Masterline Prolock vs. Radar Vice

jeffklop99jeffklop99 Posts: 19 Baller
First, I'm new to the forum but have been reading for several years. Great site!

I'm a 15 off guy with elbow issues so take the review below from that perspective. I've been looking for Clincher type gloves to help with my elbow and recently ordered 2 pairs of Masterline Prolocks (Lg and XL) and 2 pairs of Radar Vices (XL and XXL). I chose the sizes based on the comments I read on this forum. I tested all 4 sets on the ski rope tied to the pole in my basement (remnant of winter) so I could return the ones I didn't like by not actually getting them wet (which may skew my review). So here's my take, and of course this is just one guy's perspective (forgive the length but I wanted to put down all the things that would have been helpful to me in making the decision):

APPEARANCE: Prolock

Obviously very subjective. Vice if you like flashier, Prolock if you're more conservative (like me)



MATERIAL/FEEL: Prolock

prolock material is a little more form fitting and less bulky which i prefer. it feels closer to a conventional glove than does the Vice which kind of feels like having snowboard gloves on. conversely, the Vice while bulky feels like it might be a litter more rugged.



COMFORT: Prolock

very close in this category. however, the wrist strap of the Vice is a little more uncomfortable under load than the Prolock. HOWEVER, this actually has a purpose for reasons described below.



SIZE: tie

there have been several posts suggesting that the vice runs small and the fit isn't good for chubby short fingers. i didn't really notice much of a difference and the XL in both the Prolock and Vice fit well. the prolock might run a touch smaller than the vice but just barely. what I did notice with both gloves is that size is absolutely critical for a Clincher type of glove. it must fit snug and the middle two fingers must reach completely to the end of the glove or the dowel/strap mechanism is ineffective at redistributing the load to the wrist.



EASE OF PUTTING ON: Vice

both gloves are necessarily more cumbersome than conventional gloves due to the multiple strap system required to adequately redistribute force. that said, i found the Prolock more difficult to put on (especially the second glove) for two reasons: 1) the inner wrist velcro strap doesn't stay aligned as well as the Vice and you have to fish around for it, and 2) the Prolock main wrist strap is a double wrap making a littler more cumbersome than the Vice which has a single wrap.



FORCE REDISTRIBUTION/PREVENTION OF ELBOW PAIN: Vice

so this is where the rubber met the road for me and this is where my rope test was most helpful. with the Vice on one hand and the Prolock on the other (and vice versa), I loaded the line heavily with alternating hands. both gloves clearly transmitted some of the load to the wrist. however, the Vice seemed to do so better as when fully loaded I sensed minimal load at the elbow (medial epicondyle) and had no pain at all, either arm. the Prolock decreased the load but not to the extent of the Vice and I still had some elbow pain under full load.

i think the reason the Vice was superior lies in the wrist strap construction and location as compared with the Prolock. The Vice's wrist strap is wider and sits slightly higher up the arm and therefore load is better distributed to the arm bones (distal radius and ulna). as stated above, the Vice wrist strap is a bit more uncomfortable under load compared with the Prolock because of that redistribution. also, the web strap on the Vice anchors slightly more towards the radial/thumb side at the wrist than does the Prolock. I think this better maintains hand alignment (although others have commented that they dont like this orientation as much).



CONCLUSION: Both are great gloves with excellent construction and obviously there are some features that favor one glove over the other. Very close call but I bought the Vice. For me, the main issue was force redistribution/elbow pain and I found the Vice better in that regard. I strongly suggest you try both before buying as the differences are subtle but real.



Finally, to Horton, I completely understand if you need to delete this post because i've provided an unsolicited review that might be seen as favoring one product over another. and also because it might be the lengthiest document i've written since undergrad (priorities, right?!)!
Waternut
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Comments

  • WishWish Posts: 7,635 ★★★Triple Panda Award Recipient ★★★
    That's the cool thing about this site. You get honest (sometimes brutal and sometimes biased) opinions from users of the equipment. Love that. I agree with most of what you said. I've used Clincher and clincher styles for a decade. The Vice for me was clearly the winner having used both for some time. I cant speak for the ML in the last 2 seasons but they did not hold up as well as the Vice has IMHO. The wider and cushier strap up high on the wrist is key along with easy on. To me Radar took the Clincher style to the next level in design and it, like stated above, does not have a traditional look or feel and that is a good thing. While ML simply continued the same Clincher concept in a different color.
    >>> 11.25..a different kettle of fish. <<<
  • OKSkierOKSkier Posts: 119 Baller
    Just wish the quality was better for both. Brutal. I've seen Prolocks last two sets then the strap starts to break(seen that at least three times). I'm on my third pair of Vices in two years and after a dozens sets the palm is wearing through again.
  • WishWish Posts: 7,635 ★★★Triple Panda Award Recipient ★★★
    @OKSkier. I found the same thing happening with the Vice. Then I stopped tightening the strap on the back of the hand so much. Now I make a fist then LIGHTLY snug it. Before, when they seemed to wear fast, I would tightening a lot with a flat/open hand. All that did was put stress on the palms of the clove when under load that just isn't needed do to the "clinch" strap doing all the work. Now I get a season out of a pair. Huge difference.
    >>> 11.25..a different kettle of fish. <<<
  • Ed_ObermeierEd_Obermeier Posts: 1,339 Crazy Baller
    My only complaint about the Radar version is the velcro on the wrist strap doesn't stay locked in very well, often comes loose on pull up making me have to screw with it while trying to set up. Maybe they've fixed that this year?
    Ed Obermeier - owner, EZ-Slalom Course Systems
    www.ez-slalom.com
    Brady
  • Chef23Chef23 Posts: 5,813 Mega Baller
    I can't get the Vice on. I wanted to like them but they didn't fit me right.
    Mark Shaffer
  • WishWish Posts: 7,635 ★★★Triple Panda Award Recipient ★★★
    edited June 2013
    @Ed agree with the Velcro comment. Now I work the Velcro together good before I get in the water. Shouldn't have to do that though. Weird cause it's certainly wide enough you think that wouldn't happen.
    >>> 11.25..a different kettle of fish. <<<
  • 6balls6balls Posts: 4,991 ★★★Triple Panda Award Recipient ★★★
    My vice gloves are holding up like the old clinchers did which is to say nearly indestructible. I have even less hand wear and tear with vice than clincher.
    I went thru pro-locks like water but they replaced them and informed me it was a quality run issue. This was great service. The replaced pro-locks are still in my trunk, though, b/c I have not worn out the first pair of vice gloves yet.
    Before you ski with either one, rough up the strap with a little sand paper. Otherwise first few sets are slick.
    Dave Ross--die cancer die
    Brady
  • skibugskibug Posts: 2,008
    I wear both brands and alternate them on sets. I take the dowels out, fold the loose loop nylon strap that held the dowel in, and stitch it. This provides just as much benefit as the dowel; but, allows the handle to move down the fingers more and doesn't get caught on the handle during the release (had this issue a few times but not a bunch)

    Now to the quality issues.

    2013 VICE - I have broke two straps on two different pair after only a few sets and my buddy did his today (2nd set on the gloves). It is always the downward palm hand. I was pro-active with the three other new pairs that I have by taking them to the boat cover shop and asking them to add some reinforcement stitching a the base of the strap where it attaches at the wrist. This has proven to be the solution for me... no strap breaking since. As for the wear of the material. It is pretty bad as they can wear through in only a dozen sets. Again, being pro-active, I know where they wear through so I use Aqua Seal in those areas...seems to be the solution....no real wear issues since. You can also use Aqua Seal to repair when the wear starts to show.

    2013 PRO LOCKS - Same as above except the straps took a lot more sets to break; but, still broke two different pair. Will be doing the same reinforcement stitching as above for the new pairs I have and also applying Aqua Seal to the material wear areas.

    Both companies claim that they don't see these issues that frequently....that is a bunch of bulls*%&^%. I will say that both their customer service has been good; but, I can't afford to keep sending gloves back and waiting for return pairs. They both just need to beef up the stitching on the strap at a minimum.

    My Clinchers never failed in this way....they were bullet proof.
    Bob Grizzi
    OKSkier
  • Ed_ObermeierEd_Obermeier Posts: 1,339 Crazy Baller
    Never had a strap failure on any clincher type glove regardless of brand (I use/have used them all), and I've been using them since the mid 80's. Don't know what to tell you.
    Ed Obermeier - owner, EZ-Slalom Course Systems
    www.ez-slalom.com
  • konakona Posts: 529 Baller
    I also could not get the Vice to fit me and they began to rip out from trying. I still have a pair that were used a few times if someone would like to try them I would gladly pass them along.
    PM me and they are yours.

    I use my my ProLocks at the start of every year until my hand strength comes back.
    Never had a strap problem with either pair and the masterlines have a few years on them.
    Bob Boyle - I am my girls father
  • dtm8119dtm8119 Posts: 165 Baller
    I picked up a pair of Vice gloves this Spring and have 4 sets on them so far. First time using clinchers.

    I think my size I picked might have been a bit small, but after removing the dowel, I've really been liking them.

    How many of you guys run your clinchers without the dowel?
    Dan Cloutier
  • konakona Posts: 529 Baller
    gloves are gone.
    Bob Boyle - I am my girls father
  • 6balls6balls Posts: 4,991 ★★★Triple Panda Award Recipient ★★★
    No dowel for me. Still hangs up infrequently into 5 ball at 35 or shorter...not sure the mechanics of why at that spot. Thinking about taking an exacto to the loop where the dowels were on a pair once otherwise used up and try for a set or two.
    Dave Ross--die cancer die
  • WishWish Posts: 7,635 ★★★Triple Panda Award Recipient ★★★
    Handle size matters.
    >>> 11.25..a different kettle of fish. <<<
  • 6balls6balls Posts: 4,991 ★★★Triple Panda Award Recipient ★★★
    @wish better luck larger or smaller?
    Dave Ross--die cancer die
  • GarnGarn Posts: 456 Crazy Baller
    I keep the dowels in. I have NEVER had a hang-up. I can't understand why anyone would want to take the dowels out.

    Garn
    Ed_Obermeier
  • WishWish Posts: 7,635 ★★★Triple Panda Award Recipient ★★★
    @6balls. I have found smaller is better 1.00" or smaller with dowel in and never had a hang up with any of the clincher style gloves. Discovered that back when using the original Clinchers.
    >>> 11.25..a different kettle of fish. <<<
  • JohnCoxJohnCox Posts: 357 Crazy Baller
    I suppose the pair of pro-locks that i bought are 2012 models. Got them to try and help with my elbow issues...The sizing is definitely off - I typically wear small or mediums in most gloves, but these took and XS. I gave them 3 sets, just to give them the benefit of the doubt, but just could not get used to the different feel that they gave both in the way you hold the handle, and the feeling that I had loose duct tape flapping in my hand...perhaps some day I will be forced to do that or not ski, but, for the moment, I'm back to my Radar Boas.

    Anybody interested in a barely use pair of pro-locks? XS
    Mapple T2
    www.mappleskis.com
    alex38
  • 6balls6balls Posts: 4,991 ★★★Triple Panda Award Recipient ★★★
    @garn b/c they were hanging up and I see no difference in performance w/out the dowels but less hanging up.
    Never hang up at longer passes. I'm left palm up, right palm down and will hang up at times when I've kept a nice tight line out to ball at shortline with both hands on as long as they should be...then both end up on a split second longer! 35 or shorter only.
    Dave Ross--die cancer die
  • Ed_JohnsonEd_Johnson Posts: 1,984
    I use to remove the dowel on the up hand to keep it from hanging up...What really solved the problem was when I switched to the US Gear Pro-V-Radius Handle..Never a miss grab or hang up now, since there is no tight corner for it to catch on.

    Favorite Clinchers are the ML Pro Locks...They feel the closest to the original Clinchers..Had two pair of the Vice, and the palms came unstitched after only 5 sets. They were also much thicker and felt bulkier.
    Loving the new ZO Rev. S Plus Mode C3+
  • RyguyRyguy Posts: 5 New Baller
    I just started using the Masterlocks. First impression was they fit really well and comfortable. However intend to have a beer while we putt out to the course. Not easy to hold onto a can. I switched to Sam Adam bottles which are thinner and easier to grab. If you drink beer before your set I would stick to conventional gloves. I have only taken a handful of sets but at least one pass within I will miss grab the handle. No big deal at 32 but shorter it gets difficult to recover. I will keep at it as it helps my back
  • 6balls6balls Posts: 4,991 ★★★Triple Panda Award Recipient ★★★
    @ryguy, slip the bottle between the glove and the strap rather than using the bottle like a handle. Problem solved :) !
    Dave Ross--die cancer die
    Ed_Obermeier
  • bherderbherder Posts: 49 Baller
    Anyone found/have a manufacturing defect on their Vice gloves? The strap on one of mine was sewn on to the glove at an incorrect location. This caused the velcro of the inner "wrist pad" to not be able to attach to the other part of the velcro (and I have small wrists). Not sure I described that clearly enough, but I'll take a pic. Haven't gotten around to contact Radar or Eddie about it.
    Brady Herder - Banks OR
    45.621294 -123.144111
  • WishWish Posts: 7,635 ★★★Triple Panda Award Recipient ★★★
    Radar WILL take care of you. Awesome costemer service. !!
    >>> 11.25..a different kettle of fish. <<<
  • bherderbherder Posts: 49 Baller
    edited June 2013
    @Wish - called Radar and they said to work with the dealer I bought them from. They are going to swap them out for me. Just have to make the trek into town.
    Brady Herder - Banks OR
    45.621294 -123.144111
  • WishWish Posts: 7,635 ★★★Triple Panda Award Recipient ★★★
    I got a pair on line and they replaced them. I had to send them to Radar first for their analisiys on defect or not but ultimately they sent a new pair. Their initial response was to have me go to the dealer (on line so coudnt do that) and work something out. The dealer may need to call them to point out defect. If Radar agrees, you may be able to exchange on the spot vs waiting on snail mail....both ways.
    >>> 11.25..a different kettle of fish. <<<
  • ToddLToddL Posts: 2,757 Mega Baller
    I had ML Pro Locks for two seasons. Worked great, but the metal buckle always rusted. This season I'm on Radar Vice. Vice is much easier to get into. I've got about 20 sets on them and they look like new. So far so good. I did have a few mis-grabs initially since the grip strap is slightly different in orientation than Pro Locks. I can't quite describe why it is different, just that it is. Recently, I switched to a US Gear handle - no more mis-grabs. But I have a new blister between my index finger and thumb on my palm up hand. Probably getting my grip used to the new handle is to blame. I do wear kevlar liners underneath all gloves.
    -- The future of skiing depends upon welcoming novice skiers regardless of age to our sport.
  • KillerKiller Posts: 358 ★★★★Quad Panda Award Recipient ★★★★
    I picked these Vice gloves up earlier this spring, and just learned they went to a metal loop at some point? these had been advertised as 2013s from a reputable retailer... Fortunately I know a local radar rep who's going to help me out, but just wondering if anyone else has had this happen? I crushed 3ball and bit off more than I could chew, but the gloves did hang up on the handle a little longer than I would have liked, and thus popped the plastic loop.

    photo 20130626_072350_zpsdd03822a.jpg
  • 6balls6balls Posts: 4,991 ★★★Triple Panda Award Recipient ★★★
    @killer mine all have a metal loop and that is a stress point. no way plastic would hold up long term.
    Dave Ross--die cancer die
  • alex38alex38 Posts: 465 Baller
    I have 2 pair mediums with plastic, my buddie' s larges have metal.
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