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My latest progression (seeking more advice)

WaternutWaternut Posts: 1,511 Crazy Baller
edited July 2013 in Technique & Theory
Here was the first post I made asking for some help and I think the advice has really helped.

It's taken me some time to figure out to holding a good edge longer really does do a lot of good things. It was not working at first. Sorry for the blurry video but this set literally started at 8:40PM and ended at almost 9:00 so it was getting pretty dark. The passes start at 30mph and go to 32, 34, a few attempts at 22 off, and me getting my world rocked at 28 off. The videos are the same except for the first one is normal speed and the other is half speed. Can you guys offer up any new pointers?



  • madcityskiermadcityskier Posts: 112 Baller
    Good skiing. You might try rotating your shoulders outbound as you begin you edge change. This should get you wider allowing you to start your turn sooner, so you're heading cross course by the time you're at the buoy. You look like you might be able to pull your butt up over your feet more, and keep your shoulders back. Combine that with a little deeper knee bend and the ski should turn a little better and bounce off the wake more. There will be others who are better than me to give better advice shortly I would assume. Again, very good skiing.
  • WaternutWaternut Posts: 1,511 Crazy Baller
    I can definitely see that I'm not truly stacked, especially on my off side wake crossings. However, I honestly feel like I'm not bending or hunching over but the video reveals the truth. I also feel like I'm weighting both feet equally. I've tried to exaggerate that and push my front knee forward and put more weight on my front foot, without hunching over, but the ski usually turns too quick and I get broken over at the waist. Do I just need to keep at it and figure it out or am I barking up the wrong tree?
  • GaryWilkinsonGaryWilkinson Posts: 339 Solid Baller
    @waternut. Good work but boy, that could be me out there a few years ago. I ski(ed) very similar style.

    3 things that seem all related:

    1) you're losing edge early and tracking down course instead of across.
    While your countercut line, intensity and duration is working for you to get wide enough (just), in the early passes, it's not doing it for you at shorter line lengths. Check out in your video how most of the slo mo passes show a lot tip slap you have in the white water, and how long your ski is flat. Flat ski=large surface= tip bounce or slap.

    Andy said a few years ago to me that you should ski each pass with similar if not the same intensity to get angle and get wide, "you want to creat space and time" in all passes. I'll see if I can find a few pix of what I mean but if you look at the guys at -35, -38 they're ripping through the gates at tremendous angle and their ski barely moves due to the angle they are at and the force or pull through their body and legs, which in line with the rope, not far away like yours is.

    2) keep your edge further than the white water.
    This is I believe a new style or teaching development in recent years of slalom. You shouldn't have the same intensity of pull out there in setting up for the buoy as you would behind but your lower body should keep the angle better, a key way to do this is to...

    3) keep the handle in closer as you cross the mid point to almost the last second of reach.
    This does 2 things: keeps the pull or force more from the centre of motion while keeping some edging and, give you some reach room on the line as you begin the big part of your turn around the buoy. If you don't have the right line and have too much tension at the pre-turn you will reach toward the boat, break at the waist, drop your head, shoulder and collapse in a heap with your ski facing down course.

    I know, I'd did, and still sometimes, continue to do this for over 40 years,

    Hips forward, line tight and get a great angle cross course!

    Keep swerving' man!

    I need to ski back to the handle obviously.
  • madcityskiermadcityskier Posts: 112 Baller
    As to the ski turning early, remember to rotate your shoulders outbound as you change edges. Try placing your release hand on your hip as a reminder. It will help keep the ski tracking outbound to create width even as you're setting up the next turn.
  • WishWish Posts: 7,860 ★★★Triple Panda Award Recipient ★★★
    Not sure if anyone mentioned this in the other thread but your ski is not riding level. Tip is up most of the time and water is breaking between front/rear foot if not just rear foot most of the time. Your only utilizing the backhalf of the ski. You paid good money for that Strada. Why not use all of it. Boot blacement may be an issue. Perhaps fin but I'd start with boots. Ski is designed to ride with water breaking further forward to engage full rocker. Some of your troubles may just be compensating for the ski not being set up properly. Not disagreeing with above statements but repositioning boots/fin could solve an awful lot.
    >>> 11.25..a different kettle of fish. <<<
  • alex38alex38 Posts: 482 Baller
    I would lose that 30mph pass, and maybe try getting wider for the gate pull in (be careful not to pull too hard out to 1) that should give you a little more space to practice all the stuff posted above.

    If you ski alot I would spend some time at 22/34 to work on the stuff posted above ie: gates, position, staying outbound off wake, etc

  • WaternutWaternut Posts: 1,511 Crazy Baller
    When I ride flat at 32+mph, the water typically breaks under the arch of my foot. I could be riding the tail/my back foot when I'm crossing the wake because it makes me feel more secure. I keep trying to get on my front foot more especially when I'm more comfortable at the slower speeds and just riding behind the boat (if I remember). The biggest problem is the ski turns so well when I do that, that I usually bite off too much. I keep trying it though. Maybe I'll get it eventually.

    @Wish All the boot and fin adjustments are spot on with factory recommended settings with the one exception of length. I added about 0.003-0.004" to the length to lower the ski tip on my offside although even then, if I change the calipers angle at which I measure 15 degrees, I can get the tips a little further down in the slot and I get a different reading of about the same difference so it's hard to say whether I'm truly at factory settings but I'm extremely close.

    @alex38 I'm actually about to do that because the 30 mph pass is usually pretty sloppy with the technique that works at faster speeds.
  • gregygregy Posts: 2,583 Mega Baller
    edited July 2013
    @waternut I was thinking it was more of a tail riding thing. I was told by a couple of respected coaches to try to put like 90% of my weight on the front foot. I think this was an over compensation for my undesirable tail riding. This should help you get you hips up more.

    You have nice fluid flow which should pay off when get your body position corrected.
  • WaternutWaternut Posts: 1,511 Crazy Baller
    @rico I don't mind giving up 30 but I fear giving up 32 might be a bit of a reach for me. If you think it's best, I don't really mind missing my first pass regularly if it will help progression. I just read on here a while back that an average set should include a really easy pass, a fairly easy pass, a challenging pass, and a reach pass that you haven't made yet. I still struggle with 34mph at 15 off and this video is my first time ever even attempting and running 22 off. I kept trying to go to 36mph but despite being early to most buoys, I always seem to manage to screw it up. That day I just decided to change it up a bit and shorten the rope instead of go to 36.
  • gregygregy Posts: 2,583 Mega Baller
    I'd say start at 32mph. Give up 30. Work on keep weight on the front foot and edging through the wakes. Its really hard to put weight on the front without having your hips forward.
  • Than_BoganThan_Bogan Posts: 6,479 Mega Baller
    I am not in the give up passes camp. I believe running more buoys starts with running buoys, not missing them.
    Nathaniel Bogan -- GUT Padawan
  • GaryWilkinsonGaryWilkinson Posts: 339 Solid Baller
    @Than_Bogan right on! Skipping up to higher speeds could, and probably would only exaggerate what is going wrong, you'd have less time and find yourself chasing buoys. The only, and I mean only time I'd skip anything is possibly moving to -22 off instead of -15 off. I just find 22 to have great rhythm and timing. If need be, slow down 1mph to be able to learn at -22 off.

    One of my coaches teaches how to run -38 off better by getting his skiers to do it at 30 mph. So slow down and get it right at your breeze thru passes into your more challenging ones. Then once you've got body position of leverage and good timing, then move up but don't skip IMHO.
    I need to ski back to the handle obviously.
  • BruceEmeryBruceEmery Posts: 44 Baller
    Try not to reach for the handle and load the rope before the completion of the turn. Be more patient, and let the ski come under the rope before loading. Pull handle in low to outside hip.
  • madcityskiermadcityskier Posts: 112 Baller
    What Bruce says is a big thing for me. Patience ain't easy to learn. I try to think of skiing back to the handle as opposed to reaching for it.
    We're bombarding you a but, try not to make too many changes at once. Usually works best to pic 1 or 2 things at a time.
  • WaternutWaternut Posts: 1,511 Crazy Baller
    Bombarding me is fine. I know I can only work on 1 or 2 things at a time. With loads of opinions and methods of accomplishing the same goal, I feel like there's a greater chance that at least one of them will click for me.

    @garywilkinson That is a very interesting outlook to go all the way down to 30mph to learn how to run short line like that. I will certainly keep that in the back of my head if I'm really starting to struggle to get past a line length in the future.
  • A_BA_B Posts: 4,149 Mega Baller
    edited July 2013
    I would have you work on three things.
    1. Get a wider gate and lean away on a more aggressive edge into the gates.
    2. When you are going into your offside turn, push the ski out in front of you a little, and then drop your inside hip down when finishing.
    3. Coming out of the offside, keep your right hip and chest up, and your arms should be straight and handle on hips and elbows pinned to vest.

    It would not hurt to run 28 off at 26 mph. You have to do things right to run it and the emphasis is body position behind the boat. I am working with a rookie and he ran a few 28mph 15 off passes out of 20, and we finished with the slow 28 and he ran it, and said he could feel the acceleration and how important body position was, and said it was a ton of fun as well. Fun should be part of the equation or it easily becomes frustrating.
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