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Truly new designs -- M6

Razorskier1Razorskier1 Posts: 3,425 Mega Baller
New skis are funny. Seems like my first ride on new skis is alway awesome -- was true with the Red/Blue O'brien, the Fisher, the Razor and the M6. After the first set is when I start to figure out if it really works. Between the short season and my knee problems, along with some persistent back arthritis, I was struggling on my M6 to get consistent. There were days where it was magic. I have run some of the easiest 35s of my life on that ski. Other days I couldn't do a thing. Thought I'd go back to the Razor and see what I could do. Swapped bindings and skied it for two days (4 sets). My first observation was that these are two VERY different skis. The Razor is stunningly fast from ball to ball! As I've said in the past, it lets you make mistakes and be back in the pass at the next ball. despite this, I couldn't get comfortable on it. The M6 is so stable and forgiving that it makes passes feel soft, whereas the Razor just feels like lightning. It turns on a dime and goes like hell! Decided to go back to the M6 but try to free it up a bit. Moved the bindings back one hole from 30.3DFT. I didn't remeasure, but I figure it is in the high 29s now. I also took the wing angle from 9 to 8, and put the bindings as close as I could get them. I have probably skied 10 sets since, and it has been absolute magic every single set. Wide, early, and easy. Most noticable to me is that the ski still feels really stable throughout the lean, pre-turn and turn, but it takes off more quickly and gets me cross course wider and earlier than either the Razor or the M6 (as it was set up before). I haven't really gone after it at 38 yet although in a couple of tries where I really messed up the 2 ball I still ran 4 just by sticking with the ski and heading down the course.

In short, I think the newer, wider designs just ski markedly differently from anything I've been on in more than a decade. Nothing against my Razor, which ran me more 38s than any ski I've ever owned, but I love the M6 and I'm finally having fun again!
Jim Ross
JohnCoxBradyTexas6
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Comments

  • The_MSThe_MS Posts: 5,270 Mega Baller
    You are also getting stronger, healthy and more stable after getting some skiing done. I am glad to hear that you are getting the ski wet after your injuries.
    Shut up and ski
  • WishWish Posts: 7,857 ★★★Triple Panda Award Recipient ★★★
    @Razorskier1. Great to hear you are liking the ski. Fun is good. It is different even from my "wide body" ski. When we were at Andy's, I rode my S2 first, let him lay hands upon it and rode it again, along with some coaching it felt better. Then got to ride the M6. Even though my S2 is considered a 'wide body" ski, holly crap were they different. The M6 seemed to climb up on a much steeper edge and yes, very stable in the turn and just held all that easy angle. But needed a little more effort across course for me (but a couple rides isn't a fare assessment either). Andy explained the difference in designs and why mine rode so different then his. Amazing how much he knew about the "other guys" design.
    >>> 11.25..a different kettle of fish. <<<
    JohnCoxSkoot1123
  • Razorskier1Razorskier1 Posts: 3,425 Mega Baller
    @MS -- probably true. Still feel like I can only take about 8 passes a set, but that's better than 6. Still ski with a knee brace. Pain in the butt because as a one leg in guy the water tends to pull it down every time I get up. Duct tape helps, but it still sucks. Might try a different brace I have at home.

    @Wish -- I felt the same way -- lots of angle, but more effort. I have been a bindings back guy for years because I like to make my skis free to run. The Mapple bindings were an inch further forward than my Razor. Just moving them back a quarter inch and reducing the wing angle slightly were huge. I may still tinker, but for now it feels really good.
    Jim Ross
    Wish
  • mwetskiermwetskier Posts: 1,329 Mega Baller
    edited July 2013
    if you lay the m6 on its side and look at its side edge as it run from tail to tip you see how it changes edge profile in a way i never saw before on any other ski.
  • gregygregy Posts: 2,583 Mega Baller
    @razorskier1 do you think the wider front may somehow cause more impact on your knee and contributed to the injury?
  • Razorskier1Razorskier1 Posts: 3,425 Mega Baller
    @gregy -- nope. Hurt the knee cumulatively over the years and it is my back leg. The knee has been loose for more than a decade after tearing the medial collateral ligment and partially tearing the ACL. If anything, I'd say the M6 is easier on the body because it is higher on the water than my old ski and is smoother from edge to edge whereas the Razor rode deeper and was lightning fast from edge to edge and cross course.
    Jim Ross
  • gregygregy Posts: 2,583 Mega Baller
    I had the bindings a little forward on my 66.75. Then put them to stock 29.5, it smoothed it out a lot. Much better.
  • scuppersscuppers Posts: 440 Baller
    @gregy Where are you on fin settings?
    Chuck Link, Deland Florida
  • gregygregy Posts: 2,583 Mega Baller
    @scuppers right at stock. Depths at 2.506. I've seen 2.5 and 2.505 as stock. I probably couldnt tell the difference anyway. I measured the fin settings when I got it and haven't changed anything. I'm running t-factor double bindings. I stuck the front in the middle hole and it was close to stock. After I skied it I remeasured and it was closer to 29.75.
  • KcSwerverKcSwerver Posts: 389 Baller
    New account name? Mappleskier1?
    JohnCox
  • scuppersscuppers Posts: 440 Baller
    @gregy what about length and DFT? Wing?
    Chuck Link, Deland Florida
  • blockblock Posts: 172 Baller
    I had a hard time skiing on this ski the first few sets, the ski is a 66.75". Could not turn my offside. Andy moved my bindings to 29.75 and I was able to ski ok on it . Over a few weeks I got better on it and changed the fin #'s from the freer optional #'s to standard #'s----Better. I have now moved the bindings back to 29.5 and the back binding back accordingly. Wow the ski came alive, tracks out , comes under the line ,and gos. I could barely run my opening pass on this setup a few weeks ago now , its awesome.
    John Seiler
  • gregygregy Posts: 2,583 Mega Baller
    @scuppers 2.506, 6.835 tips, and .778 8 degrees
  • jipster43jipster43 Posts: 1,428 Crazy Baller
    I bought a 65 M6 just one week after I was able to cross the wakes upon returning from a broken ankle. My PB was [email protected]' off at the end of last year, and today I ran my 28' off pass just two weeks into my season and on this ski. Coming from a traditional Goode Fire, this ski feels nothing short of magical. I can make mistakes and it never shuts down or punishes me. I can crank an onside turn with reckless abandon and have never blown out the tail (knock on wood). I'm consistently surprised at the amount of angle I get from my off side turn and how easy it is to maintain it. Coming back after a broken ankle led me to brace and ski cowardly. This ski is so forgiving that I find myself slowly shedding those dangerous habits. I absolutely love this ski and can't wait to ski with Andy!

    This year has been lousy with phenomenal skis. Each company seems to have made significant advancements. It makes it even tougher to narrow your choice to just one ski, but I'm not suffering any ski envy or buyer's remorse. Besides. My wife is going to need a new ski. Perhaps she'll like the color of the vapor!
    Skoot1123
  • Razorskier1Razorskier1 Posts: 3,425 Mega Baller
    One of the things AM told me when I was on the ski the first day was that I could push it as hard as I wanted and the ski would stay with me. Took me a while to trust it, but he's right. I can hammer a turn and the tail stays in and the ski takes off. While my experience is with the M6, one of my points in starting the thread is that it does seem like the last two years have been a period of totally new ski designs broadly speaking, which ski very different from the skis of old. Takes some getting used to at first, but the new designs have some terrific attributes!
    Jim Ross
  • WishWish Posts: 7,857 ★★★Triple Panda Award Recipient ★★★
    Reminds me of the first time I rode parabolic snow skies. Took a while to get used to them and trust them but man what a great advancement in shape for alpine. Competition of late has been fierce in the waterski industry. The beneficiaries have been us aside from having to drop big bucks for the latest and greatest. Who will have the next best thing? I'm amazed that @Horton can jump on all the different shapes and designs that DO ski differently and stay at the level he does.
    >>> 11.25..a different kettle of fish. <<<
    KcSwerver
  • scuppersscuppers Posts: 440 Baller
    I've been reluctant to post on the M6 because I'm just not the shortline skier I was years ago, but I strongly agree with @Razorskier1, @Gregy, @jipster43, and @block, The M6 is a pretty good ski. I recently sold my A2, demo'ed an A3, a Strada, a Fusion, and the M6 is just so much easier to run passes on. The HO's etc, work great if your in perfect ski position. I'm just never in perfect position.
    Chuck Link, Deland Florida
  • Razorskier1Razorskier1 Posts: 3,425 Mega Baller
    @scuppers -- agreed! It is just a really stable platform to stand on and ski on. Lots of tip support for those times I get too far forward, and it seems to stick with me no matter how good of a job I'm doing at screwing up a pass!
    Jim Ross
  • HortonHorton Posts: 27,862 Administrator
    @wish the secret is kilo kai

    Support BallOfSpray by supporting the companies that support BallOfSpray

    Barts ★ Connelly ★  DBSkis ★ Goode ★ Hobe Lake ★ HO Syndicate 

    MasterCraft ★ Masterline ★ Performance Ski and Surf ★ Reflex ★ Radar ★ Stokes

    Wish
  • scuppersscuppers Posts: 440 Baller
    @bananaron To me (and remember I'm all over the ski - position wise) they are not even in the same time zone. @Razorskier1 said it best, "stable platform". The M6 just covers up your mistakes and keeps going. Also, I don't see where it takes any extra effort side to side. It's a very different feel that the HO, Radar, D3. Takes a few passes to get the feel but much better.
    Chuck Link, Deland Florida
  • 6balls6balls Posts: 5,142 ★★★Triple Panda Award Recipient ★★★
    Aw man stop it....so far I've resisted the urge to get on Jim's M6. This has been kind of a throw away season for a number of reasons, though, so maybe should just play around.
    Dave Ross--die cancer die
  • Ed_JohnsonEd_Johnson Posts: 2,118
    edited July 2013
    The ski is amazing from the standpoint that it virtually allows you to get away with some unbelievably stuff and keep skiing....I had Joel Howley, right after the Malibu Open, skiing with me for a week on my Lake helping me with my 38...All kinds of Reverse here, put the COM here, no don't look there, line the shoulders with the rope, compress here, etc. etc...Bottom line, he said, You wanta ski like Nate, do this....Well it's a lot to work on, and the ski lets me try things I would not have done on other skis....I just don't have to think or worry about the ski, just focus on the technique and go for it..If you screw it up, no big deal, do it again...Thats what I Love about the M6.
    Special Thanks to Performance Ski and Surf and the Denali Adam's !!!
  • thagerthager Posts: 4,591 Mega Baller
    You guys are not helping me resist either!
    Stir vigorously then leave!
  • DanEDanE Posts: 885 Crazy Baller
    Have any of you adjusted the ski for watertemp getting warmer?
    Successfully?
  • DanEDanE Posts: 885 Crazy Baller
    I usually End up readjusting my skis when the water finally heats up here in Sweden.
    I start out at 45 deg and now we can have watertemps around 75, there is a huge difference in feel between those temps, especially at my Home practice site where the water is around 50 feet Deep. When I get a ski dialed I usually do not Change settings to Cold water if I,m still on the same ski unless it really sucks.
    By the way 70 deg does not count as Cold water.
    I was curious if Anyone tried @Mapple s suggestion for changing dft for changing watertemps, as he does not hint wich direction to go.
  • Razorskier1Razorskier1 Posts: 3,425 Mega Baller
    I have never adjusted my ski for water temps even when I go from MN in late September to Florida for my last tournament of the year. I can't say yet that the M6 has gotten me more balls, just that I really like the way it skis. Honestly, this summer is unlikely to provide me with new bests -- bad weather, bad knee, passing of my father = not much water time. I hope to get after it again next season.
    Jim Ross
  • mwetskiermwetskier Posts: 1,329 Mega Baller
    most interesting to me is that unlike virtually all new ski designs the m6 was never prototyped. andy just went up to the radar plant and spent a week with there computer guy designing what he wanted in virtual form. then they just machined the molds and started producing the skis. who would have thought any one could know so much about ski design he could just tweek it around using design software and hit such a home run right out of the gate?
  • DavidPDavidP Posts: 175 Baller
    Shane H - What has your M6 been doing lately? FYI - I lost your number when my phone took a dip in a glass of Iced tea.
    David Panneton - LakePort Water Ski Club, formerly known as Muddy Waters
  • ForrestGumpForrestGump Posts: 6,056
    @DavidP Charles is on it running 39 at 34. Andy is supposed to send him one so you can try mine out when his comes in. 281.686.4272
    Shane "Crash" Hill

  • DavidPDavidP Posts: 175 Baller
    Cool. Good to hear Charles is running 39! Big Dawg 2014!
    David Panneton - LakePort Water Ski Club, formerly known as Muddy Waters
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