Miracle N1 settings (aka factory)

Than_BoganThan_Bogan Posts: 6,245 Mega Baller
edited August 2013 in Skis Fins Bindings
First of all, it's really hard to find time for fin experiments in the northeast. By the time I'm skiing well enough to be able to tell anything meaningful, there are tournaments coming rapid fire and I don't want to mess with stuff. Then in the fall the water is crazy cold, so settings wouldn't necessarily translate to the next tournament season anyhow. So even though I've owned it for nearly a year, I had essentially done nothing with the fin on my N1, except to measure it and note it wasn't quite at factory settings.

But I'm skipping Nationals this year, so August became a good window to mess with my fin. To get this experiment started, I moved very close to factory (except I didn't move anything more than 0.01" from where it was, to avoid it feeling too different).

First set:
28 -- easy as usual. Offside pull seems very strong.
32 -- easy. WOW on that offside pull.
35 -- woah huge mistake at 4 but oh well ran it anyhow. 1,3,5 width is not quite ideal.
38 -- hm, I'm pretty sure that's supposed to be harder than that. Fist pump for first complete 38 of 2013.
39 -- odd-side width is now a serious problem. Can't get out of 1.

So these settings are pretty sweet. Nothing like running right up the rope through a pass I've now run 8 times in my life.

Apparently those guys at the "factory" know something!

Looking forward to playing a little more. I may now be able to use a little more wing, which sometimes results in more width on this ski. Or I maybe just need to let myself pull longer into 1/3/5 since this ski can shutdown in a heartbeat.

Also, did I mention that I ran -38?
Nathaniel Bogan -- GUT Padawan


  • Than_BoganThan_Bogan Posts: 6,245 Mega Baller
    Oh, and I think I have video. Could be a great time to get some online coaching, too. I intend to post soonish.
    Nathaniel Bogan -- GUT Padawan
  • ToddFToddF Posts: 526 Baller
    Good Job nice to get the first one of the season out of the way.

    "39 -- 1,3,5 width now a serious problem."
    does that mean you got around the two and four
  • Than_BoganThan_Bogan Posts: 6,245 Mega Baller
    edited August 2013
    HAH! No. It means I couldn't get out of 1. Edited to improve clarity.
    Nathaniel Bogan -- GUT Padawan
  • A_BA_B Posts: 4,034 Mega Baller
    Great round! Did you feel like you had enough tip pressure in the gates at 39?
  • Jörgen JanssonJörgen Jansson Posts: 33 Baller
    Where are your bindings at?
    What do you weigh?
    My skiing has lost its miracle effect from last year
  • Than_BoganThan_Bogan Posts: 6,245 Mega Baller
    edited August 2013
    @jjsson Doesn't it suck how we find ways to reintroduce our bad habits and defeat the advantages of new equipment?? I swear I was already doing that by the second set on these settings (although light was going fast and I was pretty beat, so hopefully it means nothing).

    I'm starting to think that the biggest reason to change settings is to force your mind and body out of a rutt. This sometimes even works if you go back to the previous settings in the end!

    Anyhow, I'm at 28 11/16" and I weighed 167 this morning.

    I believe I'm still a few thousands longer and deeper than factory, but I don't believe in sweating the thousandths anyhow. Also, I'm still at 9 degrees, but will likely play with 9.5 and/or 10 in the near future.

    @AB I am so outclassed at -39 that it's hard for me to say much about what is going on. I actually had a driver who had never driven -39 before, so another confusing factor is that he might have been leaning a little left.

    That reminds me of an odd fact: Of my lifetime 8 complete 38s (hoping to lose count soon!), that spans 4 different boats (maybe 5) and 5 different drivers. My regular ski partner @MikeT has driven 4 of them, but the other 4 were with 4 different drivers, including the one time I ran it in a tournament.
    Nathaniel Bogan -- GUT Padawan
  • 6balls6balls Posts: 4,982 ★★★Triple Panda Award Recipient ★★★
    @than nice work. Trouble is a successful 38 almost always gives you the idea that you should run 'em all the time...it seems easy when run right. Hard to get 'em consistently, though, and when not run right geez it's abusive. I hope you run some more of 'em soon!!
    Dave Ross--die cancer die
  • Than_BoganThan_Bogan Posts: 6,245 Mega Baller
    edited August 2013
    @6balls SO TRUE! But at least one aspect is a little different this year because I've been running tons of 4s and 5s and only rarely been totally out of it right at the beginning. Indeed there were at least 3 others in July that were "in the bag" before a massive choke. Having finished one off, I am hoping the confidence will help turn more of those near-runs into runs. That said, I'm still at a stage where a 10% success rate would be pretty great. We'll see if I can get there!

    I just got a chance to see the video (still a few technical issues before I can post it), and it's really amazing how awful I look on what felt like a pretty easy -38. Seeing an uncoordinated dufus run -38 like that makes it make a little more sense how some people can run -41!
    Nathaniel Bogan -- GUT Padawan
  • GOODESkierGOODESkier Posts: 1,107 Crazy Baller
    @Than_Bogan I totally get it, saw some video of my 35' s and a few balls at 38' and I feel the same way. Most everything I think I am doing so right only looks 1/2 right on video. Darn it, if I only skied the way it "looks in my head"!
    2003 Nautique 196 LE Star Gazer & ZBox - GOODE NANO OneXT 66.75" - Powershell 5 (LFF) - Tournament PB: 2 Balls @ 39.5' OFF (34.2 MPH) on 7/18/2015 at BIG DAWG BROHO!
  • gmutgmut Posts: 200 Baller
    @Than_Bogan .....What size Nano 1,what kind of bindings and do you have the actual fin measurements? Thanks....great skiing!!!!
  • Than_BoganThan_Bogan Posts: 6,245 Mega Baller
    edited August 2013
    @gmut I'm more than happy to share my settings, although they are definitely a work in progress. It was kinda crazy to hit something good enough to run -38 on my first shot, but there were some issues there, and I have some time to play around. Naturally, I'll come back to here if I don't find something even better. Tonight I most likely will try some other wing settings.

    I'm on the "original" 65.25.

    I use D3 T-factors. Love 'em! (Dual boot for life -- with my "style" I feel a rear toe is too dangerous.)

    (I have confirmed these settings.)

    Wing: 9 degrees, flat side down
    Length: 6.85" with @SkiJay tip method. (I can't get this to be repeatable to 1/1000ths. The measurement I actually use, since it's way more repeatable, is 6.720" jaws of old dial caliper, but I'm not sure that matches up to anybody else.)
    Depth: 2.496" on left, 2.498" on right (there seems to be a 2 thousandths difference in the ski itself from one side to the other).
    DFT: 0.706" (I have my own highly-repeatable method of measuring this, but I don't know for a fact if it corresponds to anybody else's method of measuring, since the tail of the ski does not form a right angle.)

    Btw, I think the video of this set is coming, but perhaps not soon. Other priorities.
    Nathaniel Bogan -- GUT Padawan
  • gmutgmut Posts: 200 Baller
    @Than_Bogan thanks for the info. I have noticed on other skis that the fin depth varies sometimes as much as 10 thousandths from side to side. I usually stand the ski vertically on the nose and then measure the DFT...Andy Mapple method ,holding the caliper upright against the bottom of the ski caliper head resting on the back of the fin(video on youtube) Have you ever used Wiley bindings and if so how did they compare to the T-factors...was it easy to transition over to the T-factors??
  • Than_BoganThan_Bogan Posts: 6,245 Mega Baller
    I was never able to get Mapple's method to be repeatable to better than about 3 thousandths. Mine is a two measurement subtraction method that I've been meaning to publish pictures of for about 3 years. It's simple(ish) and ultra-repeatable with an ordinary caliper.

    T-factors are fundamentally different from Wiley's. I would not expect a quick transition, but in the end you MIGHT love 'em. Edge holding behind the boat is fabulous, while more forgiving than a true hard shell in the turn.
    Nathaniel Bogan -- GUT Padawan
  • Than_BoganThan_Bogan Posts: 6,245 Mega Baller
    Ok. So, um, WOAH. Ran two more 38s tonight bringing me to three in a row.

    To put this in perspective:
    From dawn of time through 2011: Ran three 38s in practice.
    2012 season: Ran three 38s in practice.
    This week: Ran three 38s in a freakin' row.

    My only "problem" now is that I changed from 9 degrees to 9.5 between sets today, and I ran -38 with both configurations. Now I'm not sure which one to keep! If -28 were what mattered, 9.5 was a clear winner: crazy stable and smooth. At -32/-35/-38 I didn't sense much difference. At -39, I think I might have also liked 9.5 better. I kinda sorta had a shot to get to 3 on one attempt.

    So the crazy thing is, I think I need to continue my experiments. These settings are clearly amazing, but I haven't gone in any direction yet that was worse, so I can't be sure I'm at a peak!

    Having a little trouble taking this in. Like I said, I was looking for a 10% success rate. Obviously I'm not really at the 100% rate that this week implies, but it seems like I've completely leaped-frogged my target.

    Now I may have to get to some more tournaments than planned in August to see if I can put up some big scores at some sites that are traditionally a little easier than home.

    Nice problems to have!! :)
    Nathaniel Bogan -- GUT Padawan
  • GOODESkierGOODESkier Posts: 1,107 Crazy Baller
    @Than_Bogan so....... I am at the same fin setting (within 0.002 of yours (Factory) anyways. So, I am toying in the 2-3 balls @38' OFF. Running more wing angle gonna help me feel wider? I messed with it earlier, but at that point my bindings were too far back and I haven't goofed with the wing since I got the bindings dialed in.......
    2003 Nautique 196 LE Star Gazer & ZBox - GOODE NANO OneXT 66.75" - Powershell 5 (LFF) - Tournament PB: 2 Balls @ 39.5' OFF (34.2 MPH) on 7/18/2015 at BIG DAWG BROHO!
  • Than_BoganThan_Bogan Posts: 6,245 Mega Baller
    More wing sometimes seem to create more width on this ski. I haven't heard a really good explanation for that, but many have experienced it.
    Nathaniel Bogan -- GUT Padawan
  • SkiJaySkiJay Posts: 2,314 Mega Baller
    @Than_Bogan I think the N1 helps many skiers build better angle with steep wing settings because of its relatively extreme tail rocker. The rocker makes the ski ride fairly tip high and more wing helps to get the ski under you which puts more of the ski's forebody in the water. This extra tip engagement helps finish the turn and cut with more angle. Then, through the edge change, where the extra wing would normally cost you width on other ski's, the N1's extra rocker relieves enough tip through the second white water that you are already wide and early before you get back to the front of the ski.

    This might all change with the soon to be released second version of the N1 which apparently has less rocker.
    www.FinWhispering.com ... Your ski should be your dance partner, not a wrestling opponent
  • Than_BoganThan_Bogan Posts: 6,245 Mega Baller
    It's gonna be hard for me not to call the new ski the Nanoo Next...
    Nathaniel Bogan -- GUT Padawan
  • MSMS Posts: 5,049 Mega Baller
    This spring we lined up about 8 N1s on a flat surface and not one of them had the same rocker. I had 2 of the early N1s last Aug and both had the same rocker and they both skied the same. From all the N1 skiers I know, everyone that is liking the N1 has less rocker.
    @Than I tried 9.5 and 10 and could not get the ski to perform like it does at 9. I did not mess with binding position but I am loving mine at 9.
    Shut up and ski
  • Than_BoganThan_Bogan Posts: 6,245 Mega Baller
    @MS I don't know which one I have, but I've had two (broke the first one) and they skied the same. And either way, they can't have it back. :)

    I won't be trying the Nanoo Next (ok, Nano One XT). I'm sure it'll be awesome, but with my short season and all my constraints and issues, I need to keep a ski for a while to get the most out of it.
    Nathaniel Bogan -- GUT Padawan
  • MSMS Posts: 5,049 Mega Baller
    @Than That is why I had 2, my first showed up with a ding on it and they sent another out ASAP and let me ski the first one until it was delivered.
    I am not sure they can get it better.
    Shut up and ski
  • Than_BoganThan_Bogan Posts: 6,245 Mega Baller
    Update: These settings continue to feel pretty amazing. I was trying to really change my leverage position and entrance (see coaching thread), which was totally working, but led to some missed -35s because I was getting way too wide at 1 using my "old" timing with my slightly better body position.

    Unfortunately, the backwash has also returned in full force. All churned up after 3 passes. And I damn near ran one anyhow. 4.5 @ -38 on just one try. For me, that's quite amazing. Heck 2.5-3 would "normally" be pretty amazing in that kind of backwash.

    And I repeatedly did THAT in my second set while trying 10 degrees. That was conclusively not the ideal setting for me, but still felt pretty good.

    Still can't decide between 9 and 9.5.
    Nathaniel Bogan -- GUT Padawan
  • Than_BoganThan_Bogan Posts: 6,245 Mega Baller
    Got another one done, still at 9.5 (for now!) Mini-milestones:

    - Most -38s in one calendar year (four).
    - Most -38s in a two week period (those same four).
    - Have run out of fingers to count how many I've run lifetime
    - Ran -38 with a huge mistake (got crushed out of 4 and never achieved any leverage position on way to 5 -- still have no clue how I got over to 6).
    - First ever complete -38 with no fist pump at the end.

    Maybe that last one is the most interesting of all. Suddenly I expect to run it. Of course, the reality is I'm probably around 20-30% success rate, but most of the incomplete ones see the 4 or 5 ball these days.

    So these settings really do seem to be the miracle.

    Now it's time for some serious work on my technique, starting with my on-side leverage position (including gate entry), so that -39 will stop laughing its ass off at my pitiful attempts!

    It would also be nice to get one in a tournament, but this season my tournaments have slightly trailed my practice, so we'll see how it goes. (In 2011 my tournaments were much better than my practice; would be nice to get back to that now that I'm practicing really well!)
    Nathaniel Bogan -- GUT Padawan
  • jcampjcamp Posts: 745 Mega Baller
    @Than_Bogan I want to see one of these this weekend at Wrightsville. That water is magic so I expect nothing less!
  • alex38alex38 Posts: 462 Baller
    No fist pump is huge, great skiing! Any b2b's? Those can be huge indicators of progress and make great milestones! You will certainly figure something out for 39 I'm sure. Your video looks like me at -32!
  • alex38alex38 Posts: 462 Baller
    And feel free to come down to RI and help us with our next milestones!
  • Than_BoganThan_Bogan Posts: 6,245 Mega Baller
    @jcamp To be honest, my recent tournaments don't suggest that I'm quite ready for that, but I'm sure as heck gonna try!! That reservoir is certainly a place where it's possible. I actually wasn't planning to make it up there, but my recent practice results convinced me I oughtta give it a shot.
    Nathaniel Bogan -- GUT Padawan
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