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Ski Test '09

lkblkb Posts: 592 Baller
edited January 2009 in Skis Fins Bindings
Anybody know when the results are coming out?
«13

Comments

  • Old MS AccoutOld MS Accout Posts: 2,114 Baller
    What is left for you to try? I think you tried every ski out there. Between you, JD, Skidawg, SJ, teammalibu and Horton, we should just write our own. Its like year round ski testing.
  • trs1trs1 Posts: 85
    <p>
    LKB,
    </p>
    <p>
    I was lucky enough to work with Horton this year and conduct the ski tests.
    </p>
    <p>
    We did it at Oz, home of the H2Oz Training Center in Charleston, SC.
    </p>
    <p>
    I think it was very successful, but I will really only know once the article comes out.
    </p>
    <p>
    Obviously, the article needs to fit the specs (word count) etc. of the mag, but I will have an extended version of the tests, etc. online.
    </p>
    <p>
    I have the site functional and I am getting some basic info up on it now, but I am not ready for a full release of the site.
    </p>
    <p>
    We will be working hand in hand with BOS on this and I encourage any feedback from all of you.
    </p>
    <p>
    If you appreciate the tests, let me know, if not, let me know.  I stand behind everything we did and I believe we are on the right track to provide everyone with gret info on each ski tested, and how to use each ski appropriately to get the best results out of it.
    </p>
    <p>
     The test has stayed pretty true to its origins with some adaptations.   For instance, it is no longer known as a SKI TEST, rather an Independent Ski Review (ISR)
    </p>
    <p>
    The group of testers rode each ski multiple times, and we looked for how/why the ski works the way it works and how to make the ski work best and for which "type" of skier each ski will work best for.
    </p>
    <p>
    I have probably said too much as it is, but here in the next few days, I will give out the web address so you can see the philosophy behind the ISR.
    </p>
    <p>
     Anyway, looking forward to the entire release as soon as the WS Mag Spring issue comes out.
    </p>
    <p>
    Let me know your thoughts,
    </p>
    <p>
    LAter

    TS
    </p>
    <p>
    tadd at h2osmosis dot com
    </p>
    <p>
    H2Osmosis Sports 
    </p>
    <p>
     
    </p>
    <p>
    Just to let you know, some of you guys may be surprised with some of the findings we had.  Not all the "myths" about each ski are absolute! 
    </p>
  • Old MS AccoutOld MS Accout Posts: 2,114 Baller
    As a 2 time tester, I realize what all went into the planning and delivering of the reviews. From what Horton and JD went through, I know that more money was spent out of pocket than was gained. From my experience, it was to each his own on how you felt about each ski and the info that is put out should help you narrow down skis that you may try. I look forward to seeing the new format. In 06, I saw testers tearing it up on the new white Nomad. I could not wait to ride it as I was a former D3 guy. No matter what I did, I could not ski on the Nomad.
    It is not a waste of time and it is a helpful outlet for many skiers that dont have cash and time to try 6 new skis per year like Horton, JD and the La. testers.
    I look forward to seeing it Tadd, thanks for the effort.
  • Director DarwinDirector Darwin Posts: 381 Baller
    6 skis a year?  Me?  Not anymore!  I'm sold on the RCX but I think they'll be an Elite showing up around these parts in the near future - hearing GREAT things about that ski.  We'll see.
  • lkblkb Posts: 592 Baller
    <p>
    Tadd, thanks for the info and efforts.
    </p>
    <p>
    MS, maybe I will trade the warp for a Nomad, an RS-1, an A-1, and a Prophecy then I will be content for a while.
    </p>
  • Old MS AccoutOld MS Accout Posts: 2,114 Baller
    That would be an even trade. You could probably add the new OB to that and still have change for a few South Paws.
  • lkblkb Posts: 592 Baller
    <p>
    Really I wish I could find a stick that works for me and then just <em>stay</em> on it. I spent most of '04, all of '05 and '06, and most of 07 on the same monza. During then I can see my progress. When I got off it, progress has been tougher to define. It's been up and down. Mostly down. I think speed control has something to do with it too.
    </p>
    <p>
    The bottom line is I need to get on a good ski and stick with it so that part of the equation won't be buggin me.
    </p>
  • Old MS AccoutOld MS Accout Posts: 2,114 Baller
    You are on the same path as me. 04/05/06 and 7 on the Monza. I sold my 07 before I had my 08 and I will never do that again. Tried a few other 07s, but none were like mine. You are correct, get/find a stick and stick on it. Tynan wont give up that X5 and look how long Ben F was on the 9100. Did you try the new RS1?
  • lkblkb Posts: 592 Baller
    <p>
    na...thinking about it though. Found a lightly used one for 450, but the guy says he ordered it on the soft side. That may be fine but it made me wonder. I asked him for flex numbers but he didn't know them. Any thoughts?
    </p>
    <p>
    In general, do you'll think that for a certain skier there is one flex pattern that's best for that skier from ski to ski?
    </p>
  • Old MS AccoutOld MS Accout Posts: 2,114 Baller
    I dont know if it flex patterns or build, but you see guys try 3 of the same skis and pick one. The older Monzas were all across the board, but towards 07 the started to come out more consistant. The 08s were all very close.
    If you can get the Serial number off the ski, Call Eddie R and he can dig it up. Eddie is on here from time to time and I am sure he will help. They helped me out lots last summer with my RS1.
  • DWDW Posts: 2,164 Mega Baller
    <p>
    Tadd,
    </p>
    <p>
    I very much appreciate the tests.  I had the opportunity to participate in 2007 and found it very worthwhile to learn a lot about several different ski options and really appreciated that opportunity.  In addition, in the years of not being a participant, the information certainly helped in a ski purchase decision.  I certainly look forward to reading about the test, particularly on the web site.  Not only that, but for the manufacturers gain, I felt the test itself made me think about buying a ski or upgrading my equipment, thus at least putting a potential ROI on the expenses of the test itself.
    </p>
    <p>
    Roughly a decade ago I felt the same about the annual boat review in WSM.  When factual data and real comparisons were done and reported on, I felt the test offered enourmous value in assisting on a boat purchase.  The data directly influenced a boat purchase and I never regretted the decision I made.  Unfortunately the currrent version of the review does nothing to assist me in making a purchase of a new boat.  I only reference that in light of ski testing, a sales pitch for each ski offers no information but a comprehensive review can be of significant value.
    </p>
    <p>
    Thanks for taking on the ski test, and of course thanks to JTH for starting the process and pulling off the first wave of the tests.  I hope the event keeps on going, particularly as new and different ski options keep coming from the manufacturers.  Great job to all.
    </p>
  • trs1trs1 Posts: 85
    <p>
    DW,
    </p>
    <p>


    Thanks for the words and input.
    </p>
    <p>
    I agree with the point of your post for sure, and I hope I did a good job with the review and it is helpful to skiers like you in future purchases, as that was the main goal I had.  I actually used the old boat review as a guide for the format.  I wanted to describe how each ski should be used for peak performance.  I used the feedback from each skier for this.  Good and bad.  
    </p>
    <p>
    Actually, I just got an advance copy of the test from WS Mag, and I am very happy with the layout, etc. of the article.
    </p>
    <p>
    I am hard at work getting info on the site, and hope to have it full steam early next week.
    </p>
    <p>
    With the blessing of Mr. Horton, I hope to have the BOS forum provide your feedback for the tests, as well, the Ski Test website is in a Blog format, similar to fifteenoff.com or the CRB, so you will be able to post your comments directly on the site as well.  Some think that this is not the best idea as they believe it will open the door to negative nancies who just want to badmouth everything because it is the way they work.  I am fine with that.  If you do not like what we produced, let me know, I am fine with it.   But, in the end, I truly believe this format is the way to go.  I liken it to "Cliffs Notes" (Which all of you read back in HIgh School).  It doesn't have all the answers, but it gives you a great starting point on the skis that are out there, and which one might be the one for you.  In the end, testing the ski out yourself is the key.  As far as a little self promotion, H2Oz offers the Ride Before You Buy program.  It is the original "demo" program out there.  So after reading the test, if you are ready to try something, give me a buzz.
    </p>
    <p>
     
    </p>
    <p>
    A few Ski Review teasers:  We did have a "Favorite Ski" for each skier, and surprisingly enough, each ski tested got at least 1 vote, most got at least 2.  Very even across the board.
    </p>
    <p>


    As well, Fischer, Warp 8, and Reflex were not a part of the test.
    </p>
    <p>
    Thanks
    </p>
    <p>
    Tadd
    </p>
    <p>
    tadd at h2osmosis dot com
    </p>
    <p>
     
    </p>
  • Director DarwinDirector Darwin Posts: 381 Baller
    <p>
    "Cliff Notes"?  High School?  I hear they use them as text books at 'Bama!<img src="http://ballofspray.com/vanillaforum/js/tinymce/jscripts/tiny_mce/plugins/emotions/images/smiley-cool.gif" border="0" alt="Cool" title="Cool" />
    </p>
    <p>
    <img src="http://www.harvestmkt.com/images/cliffsmakesshort_small_m9rt.jpg" border="0" width="440" height="658" />
    </p>
  • trs1trs1 Posts: 85
    <p>
    Touche Darwin,
    </p>
    <p>
    At least at Bama, we can read the Cliffs Notes!
    </p>
    <p>
    Not sure about them Bayou Bengals.
    </p>
    <p>
    I heard all you need there is to wear your hat real high up off your head cause if not, then your head wont be able to hold all the information you learn from that there teacher they gots in the classrooms.
    </p>
    <p>
    Sincerely,
    </p>
    <p>
    Les Miles 
    </p>
  • kckc Posts: 205 Solid Baller
    <p>
    I had the pleasure of being a 2009 tester.  Tadd did a great job running the tests.  I know JH was a great help to him, and Seth was a gracious host.  Everyone enjoyed each other's company, and we had a fun week, except for the "monsoon" on Friday!  Regarding Warp,  they canceled at the last minute, much to the disappointment of all of us.  Looking farward to viewing the website and the WS article!
    </p>
  • HortonHorton Posts: 29,127 Administrator
    edited January 2009
    <img src="http://www.waterskireview.h2osmosis.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/01/home-450x288.jpg" border="0" align="top" />

     

    Support BallOfSpray by supporting the companies that support BallOfSpray

    Connelly  ★ Basta ★ DBSkis ★ Denali ★ Goode ★ Hobe Lake ★ HO Syndicate ★ MasterCraft

    Masterline ★ McClintock's ★ Performance Ski and Surf ★ Reflex ★ Radar 

    Stella Blue ★ Stokes ★ World WaterSki League

     

  • HortonHorton Posts: 29,127 Administrator
    It is an Elite and no Kim does not know about my secret love

     

    Support BallOfSpray by supporting the companies that support BallOfSpray

    Connelly  ★ Basta ★ DBSkis ★ Denali ★ Goode ★ Hobe Lake ★ HO Syndicate ★ MasterCraft

    Masterline ★ McClintock's ★ Performance Ski and Surf ★ Reflex ★ Radar 

    Stella Blue ★ Stokes ★ World WaterSki League

     

  • DWDW Posts: 2,164 Mega Baller
    Hmm, those Cali morals!!
  • RogerRoger Posts: 1,587 Mega Baller
    <p>
    I know we supplied two women for the test. Trish is in the shot, but Laurie is missing... did she take the shot or sleep in <img src="/vanillaforum/js/tinymce/jscripts/tiny_mce/plugins/emotions/images/smiley-wink.gif" border="0" alt="Wink" title="Wink" />
    </p>
    Roger B. Clark - Okeeheelee skier. Senior driver, Senior Judge
  • SMSM Posts: 529 Crazy Baller
    Any solid date on when the results will be posted?
    Time spent on the water is time well spent.
  • kckc Posts: 205 Solid Baller
    Laurie had "the day off" the day photo was taken, so like any dedicated skier, she was over taking sets at Trophy!  She had her pic taken later with a ski, and hopefully will be photo-shopped in!
  • trs1trs1 Posts: 85
    <p>
    Yes, Laurie was gone at the time of the pic, but I promise I will post a pic of her up on the Ski Review Website.
    </p>
    <p>
    Speaking of, I am just about done with the site.  Still need to get some more photos on there, and I am sure I will keep trying to update it more and more with other thoughts, ideas, ski/fin set ups, etc.  I have some video that I would like to put on the site, but I am not quite the editor I thought I was, but I am still working on it.
    </p>
    <p>


    Anyway, the site is ready with all the info so here goes.
    </p>
    <p>
    The mag should be at your door any day now as well, as I have already got one. Had to previ
    </p>
    <p>
    Check out the Independent Ski Review: waterskireview.h2osmosis.com
    </p>
    <p>
    Thoughts, comments, are welcome. 
    </p>
    <p>
    Thanks
    </p>
    <p>
    Tadd
    </p>
    <p>
    H2Osmosis Sports
    </p>
    <p>
    tadd at h2osmosis dot com 
    </p>
  • trs1trs1 Posts: 85
    <p>
    This link should work:
    </p>
    <p>
     
    </p>
    <p>
    <a href="http://waterskireview.h2osmosis.com" target="_blank" title="ISR">Independent Ski Review</a>
    </p>
    <p>
     
    </p>
    <p>
    Thanks
    </p>
    <p>
    TS 
    </p>
  • SMSM Posts: 529 Crazy Baller
    Great site, thanks for the hard work.
    Time spent on the water is time well spent.
  • Old MS AccoutOld MS Accout Posts: 2,114 Baller
    <p>
    As a former tester, I am disipointed in a few of the comments. I have the comments below.
    </p>
    <p>
     "I needed to find a team of skiers who I could count on for a true understanding of skiing. I wanted to make sure that whoever rode the skis in this test, really understood the “feeling” of each ski."
    </p>
    <p>
    Butterfield, Jones, Greenwood, Skidawg, Stange and ERB the tool shop man have tested, tweaked, rode, watch others ride, set up and throw off docks more skis then any people I know. In my 2 years, I learned tons abots fins, bindings, placement and the effect of each move then in all the years leading up to the tests. I thought the results were well thought out and published.
    </p>
    <p>
     "I was able to gather very detailed information and thoughts from each rider, which is exactly what was needed to do the Review the right way".
    </p>
    <p>
    Here are some of the testers comments on skis. Does it sound more detailed then last year?
    </p>
    <p>
    “Once you find your spot, it feels real comfy”, PJ McMillan. “The ski never stops moving,” said tester PJ McMillan.

    The “Spot” is in the middle of the ski. “The passes seemed to go slower than they actually were” John Horton
    </p>
    <p>
    "you are able to scrap very well, as you can “SLAM” a turn if need be and the 9900WSL keeps right on moving to the next buoy ready for everything you can throw at it."
    </p>
    <p>
    There is more, but I think you all get my drift.
    </p>
    <p>
     
    </p>
    <p>
     
    </p>
  • Old MS AccoutOld MS Accout Posts: 2,114 Baller
    They never let me ride the Monza, it was my home ski. It was the Radar that rocked. The WS mag takes the info and puts it out, so not much control of final content. I like the test, the effort put into it and all the poeople involved. I just was not fond of the rip on the former test teams.
  • trs1trs1 Posts: 85
    <p>
    <font color="#000000">MS,</font>
    </p>
    <p>
    <font color="#000000"> </font>
    </p>
    <p>
    <font color="#000000">I am somewhat confused by your comments, as I do not understand where you are going with them.  I guess you are disappointed, not sure why as you really do not add any reasoning to your post.

    </font>
    </p>
    <p>
    <font color="#000000">But I will reply as I think I need to to try to get across my point.</font>
    </p>
    <p>
     
    </p>
    <p>
    <font color="#0000ff">
    As a former tester, I am disipointed in a few of the comments. I have the comments below.
    </font>
    </p>
    <p>
    <font color="#0000ff">
    "I needed to find a team of skiers who I could count on for a true
    understanding of skiing. I wanted to make sure that whoever rode the
    skis in this test, really understood the “feeling” of each ski."
    </font>
    </p>
    <p>
    <font color="#0000ff">Butterfield, Jones, Greenwood, Skidawg, Stange and ERB the tool shop
    man have tested, tweaked, rode, watch others ride, set up and throw off
    docks more skis then any people I know. In my 2 years, I learned tons
    abots fins, bindings, placement and the effect of each move then in all
    the years leading up to the tests. I thought the results were well
    thought out and published.</font>
    </p>
    <p>
    <font color="#000000">I am assuming you took my quote as a direct competition to past years reviewers, testers, etc.  Well, to my knowledge there was no competition between this years review and past years.  I am sorry if you are upset that you were not asked to join in. But I wanted to try to get a bit of a different flavor this year with some new guys.  As well, I did speak to a few of the past years testers, to try to get some consistency in the review, Jones, Skidawg, and asked them to come and help me out like Horton did, but they were unable to make it.  My statement above had nothing to do with past years testers in any way shape or form.  I think you read into a bit too much.</font>  <font color="#000000">I would hope that each and every year we can add in some new riders and give more people the opportunity to join in on this.  Not try to make it a "Members Only" type of deal.</font>
    </p>
    <p>
    <font color="#0000ff">
    "I was able to gather very detailed information and thoughts from each
    rider, which is exactly what was needed to do the Review the right
    way". </font>
    </p>
    <p>
    <font color="#0000ff">
    Here are some of the testers comments on skis. Does it sound more detailed then last year?
    </font>
    </p>
    <p>
    <font color="#0000ff">
    “Once you find your spot, it feels real comfy”, PJ McMillan. “The ski never stops moving,” said tester PJ McMillan.

    The “Spot” is in the middle of the ski. “The passes seemed to go slower than they actually were” John Horton
    </font>
    </p>
    <p>
    <font color="#0000ff">
    "you are able to scrap very well, as you can “SLAM” a turn if need be
    and the 9900WSL keeps right on moving to the next buoy ready for
    everything you can throw at it."</font>
    </p>
    <p>
    <font color="#000000"> Again I am not trying to compete with past years tests.  I am not sure how any of what happened at this years review could be taken as a dig against past years tests.  Plus you are pulling out a few quotes here and there.  Quotes are not what the ISR is all about.  They are just "flash/hype", the real meat is in the actual review.   </font>
    </p>
    <p>
    <font color="#0000ff">
    There is more, but I think you all get my drift.</font>
    </p>
    <p>
    <font color="#000000">No really, no I do not at all. </font>

     
    </p>
    <p>
    <font color="#000000">MS, I apologize if you took any of the ISR as a dig toward you and past ski tests, but in no way shape or form was that my objective.  In fact, up until reading your post, that thought had never even crossed my mind.  If you can point out anywhere whereI have intentionally compared this review to past tests, by all means, please let me know.</font>
    </p>
    <p>
    <font color="#000000">If you have any other thoughts, please, I welcome all thoughts and opinions, but please try to add something substantial to them to let me know where you are coming from, rather than assumptions that have no backing to them.   </font>
    </p>
    <p>
    <font color="#000000">My main goal is and always has been, from the beginning to educate about the product and take what I learn from this review to bring into future reviews if I am lucky enough to conduct them again.   </font>
    </p>
    <p>
    <font color="#000000">Thanks</font>
    </p>
    <p>
    <font color="#000000">Tadd</font>
    </p>
    <p>
    <font color="#000000">tadd at h2osmosis dot com </font>
    </p>
    <p>
    <a href="http://waterskireview.h2osmosis.com" target="_blank">waterskireview.h2osmosis.com </a>
    </p>
    <p>
     
    </p>
    <p>
     
    </p>
  • kpickettkpickett Posts: 141 Baller
    <p>
    Tadd, 
    </p>
    <p>
    Reading the skier bios, I see that all of the testers are really expert skiers.  I imagine that anyone who is consistently into 38 and 39 can probably ski pretty darn well on anything.  As someone who is working to get consistent at 32 and grab a few at 35, I think it would be helpful for us lesser mortals to have some skiers like us test the skis, as well.  I don't discount the comments from high level skiers (it can be really helpful), but their technique is so strong it can adapt more easily than mine, for instance.
    </p>
    <p>
    Just a suggestion.
    </p>
    <p>
    KWP
    </p>
    Kyle Wiley Pickett
  • Old MS AccoutOld MS Accout Posts: 2,114 Baller
    I am not up set about joining in, I had my days of testing and know what its all about. Its the comments. "A true understanding of skiing" It makes it sound like Horton put together a bunch of no minds.
    I understand everything else that goes into it all.

    "I was able to gather very detailed information and thoughts from each rider, which is exactly what was needed to do the Review the right way". I thought that the former tests were done the right way (if there is a right or wrong way)
    and that there was plenty of detailed info from each rider. If you think Butterfield is long winded in his posts on BOS, you should read his reviews. I dont want to throw darts at the test, I just want to make sure that past efforts do not get trashed. Guys like JD and Skidawg put lots of lost time and money into those tests and there efforts should not be trashed.
  • trs1trs1 Posts: 85
    <p>
    KPickett,
    </p>
    <p>
     
    </p>
    <p>
    Good comments, and that was an issue I discussed with a few people before the ISR.
    </p>
    <p>
    The main reasoning behind getting skiers who are relatively "good" skiers, is because they tend to understand the feeling that the ski gives them and can explain it in a better way due to more experience on the water.
    </p>
    <p>
    Now, please do not take this as a dig at you, because by no means is it.
    </p>
    <p>
    I was just advised by a few people who had done tests like this before, that you tend to get better feedback from skiers at a higher ability level and that in itself outweighs the fact that these skiers can adjust for each ski.
    </p>
    <p>
    But, in that same respect, I feel you would want someone who could adjust for each ski, and then be able to explain that adustment/adaptation to their style, so that it could be related, and explained in the review so that you, or any skier who reads it, can understand what they will need to do to hop on that ski and make it work correct.
    </p>
    <p>
    I think this makes sense, let me know if I did not explain it so it is understandable.
    </p>
    <p>
    Thanks again for the comment, good one.
    </p>
    <p>
    Tadd
    </p>
    <p>
     <a href="http://waterskireview.h2osmosis.com/" target="_blank">waterskireview.h2osmosis.com </a>
    </p>
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