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I was almost done writing the Vapor review but

HortonHorton Posts: 29,548 Administrator
edited October 2013 in Reviews
So I was almost done writing the Vapor review and honestly the ski is freakin awesome. In the back if my mind there was one thing I did not understand. At my very limit (at a pass I do not generally make/ 38 off) I was struggling to flow at the end of the turn on my off side. We are talking nitty gritty stuff but like every skier I was thinking if I can just fix this one thing…

So I called Matt Rini to ask him what he thought. Matt had me try some new settings he is playing with. (.730/2.451/6.895) Holy crap!

With the old settings ( 2.475 /6.885/ 0.765): Once the rope is short enough that I am making mistakes the ski is still automatic in and out of on side but requires some skills to get a flowing off side turn.

With the new settings (2.451/6.895/.730): The on side is requires a little more skill but the off side is now idiot proof. I took two rides with the new sittings tonight. The first ride I stayed at 35 and did not feel that it was all the different. On the second set I noticed that the on side was not quite as automatic and flowing. After two 35s I tried a 38. With the new setting it was like I could not screw up one ball (off side). I ran the first 38 I tried.

With new found off side confidence I shortened to 39. Tonight was the 3rd time in my life that I have gotten around 3 at 39. It was a nasty 2.5 at 39 but I will take that any day. I think the one ball was pretty solid. I am skiing above my head so I am going to screw up one side or the other.

What is the best setting? Beats me. More rides will make that clearer.

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Comments

  • BRYBRY Posts: 585 Crazy Baller
    Interesting. That's way deeper, longer and further back. Much bigger fin. Are you feeling more drag with that, like there's a bit more drive forward required with your feet?
  • HortonHorton Posts: 29,548 Administrator
    @BRY no way shallower. Look again

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  • BRYBRY Posts: 585 Crazy Baller
    Ahh, yes. That makes more sense. Just a little late...
  • HortonHorton Posts: 29,548 Administrator
    if I had a chiropractor he would care

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  • A_BA_B Posts: 4,277 Mega Baller
    The original Goode settings were 2.449, 6.872 (jaws) which is was 6.950 or something tips, and .690. Only recent skis have all seemed to go to 2.510, 6.840 tips, and .750 ish. Shorter, Deeper, and more forward fins. A lot of guys skied really well on the original shallow longer and back fins....
  • bishop8950bishop8950 Posts: 1,196 Open or Level 9 Skier
    @Horton: Watching the Radar boys at Diablo the ski looked awesome except at shorter lines on the offside, just like you describe. It looked like the ski would stick at the apex. Good to hear Rini is figuring it out.
  • JC McCavitJC McCavit Posts: 503
    edited October 2013
    @Horton - Do you feel this ski is different in the idea it is not super sensitive to fin settings? I've tried most of the settings posted during your review and the ski feels pretty good at most of them. Some settings do feel a little better than others, but not drastically different, more like very fine tuning. Now you try experimental settings from Rini and again you are rewarded. I can't wait till next season to try the Rini settings. Thank you for continuing to test the ski. I hope you manage a life time practice PB before the next test. Are you still at 29 15/16 are has that changed too?
    JC McCavit
  • HortonHorton Posts: 29,548 Administrator
    I do not think the Vapor is as sensitive as some other skis. It has felt pretty good with every setting. I am just looking for that last tiny bit.

    Yes the bindings are still just a tick behind 30"

    By the way I think the settings listed above as the old settings might be better for most skiers. I would think that they would be the standard for now.

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    A_B
  • skierjpskierjp Posts: 879 Crazy Baller
    How did you measure for the numbers. Tips for length? Slot caliber for tail?
  • HortonHorton Posts: 29,548 Administrator
    tips / head
    traditional

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  • A_BA_B Posts: 4,277 Mega Baller
    edited October 2013
    Every set of Rini vs Rossi settings I have looked at shows Rini with more length and dft. depth is pretty similar. Even when Rossi was riding the black and orange he was deeper, shorter, and less dft from stock.

    Chris generates so much angle on his own he doesn't need fin length like most normal people.
    ALPJr
  • HortonHorton Posts: 29,548 Administrator
    @AB Rossi's settings for the Vapor are really good. I think I was smoother than the newer settings last night but with time maybe it will be the other way around.

    This seems crazy but the problem with the Vapor is that you get so darn early and wide that it is a different sight picture. With Rossi's setting I was deer in the headlights out wide of on at 38 and then trying to kill it. When I think about it and arc in a little sooner it is crazy good.

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    A_B
  • HortonHorton Posts: 29,548 Administrator
    wing yes

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  • MidvkskiMidvkski Posts: 9 Baller
    edited October 2013
    I'm running a 68 vapor stock fin settings (rini) and having to push the front boot all the way to the front, back boot stock. Great on side, ok off side. Thoughts? Wondering if the settings above would allow the front boot to run further back
    Thanks and great site!
  • HortonHorton Posts: 29,548 Administrator
    edited October 2013
    @Midvkski You will have to try the other settings to know. The ski is really kick ass. So if it is "just ok" I am going to say it is settings

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  • A_BA_B Posts: 4,277 Mega Baller
    I would recommend moving the front boot back, and add a little length, or take out a little depth, or move the fin back a little, in that order. There are also some out here that would recommend adding depth to increase drag and pull the tip down, but that has never worked for me. For sure measure your front boot location though, as there are no real guarantees that the plate, holes, etc., all are exactly where others are at. Eliminate the boot variable first.
  • MidvkskiMidvkski Posts: 9 Baller
    The front boot is 30-7/8". I don't think I like it there. The ski doesn't cast out. I can get a screaming on side turn that is the best I have ever had with the front boot back another, but the weak side won't engage at all then. I'll try fin settings next week and make some changes to the fin. This ski is really easy to ride! Thanks for all the info!
  • HortonHorton Posts: 29,548 Administrator
    @Midvkski 30-7/8" sounds forward for the 68. I would think 30.5ish

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  • A_BA_B Posts: 4,277 Mega Baller
    edited October 2013
    Get the boots in the right place first, then work on the fin.
    Move the boot back. A 68 ski is normally in the 30.125-30.50 range.

    A good trial might be to adjust as Horton mentioned above, by taking out .020 depth, add .010 length, and take out .035dft.

    Matt Rini's Fin Settings:
    Size: Depth DFT Length Boot Setting
    68": 2.480, .765, 6.870 front boot @ 30 1/2

    Rossi on 68:
    30 1/4"
    2.480
    6.870
    0.765
    9

    So 2.460, 6.880, .730, and I would go to 30.25.

    This setup would favor your offside, and with boots back, the onside should still be pretty good and quick.
  • skierjpskierjp Posts: 879 Crazy Baller
    Any numbers for a 67"?
  • A_BA_B Posts: 4,277 Mega Baller
    edited October 2013
    Matt Rini's Fin Settings:

    Size: Depth DFT Length Boot Setting

    65": 2.475, .740, 6.865 front boot @ 28 3/4
    66": 2.480, .745, 6.870 front boot @ 29 1/4
    67": 2.480, .750, 6.870 front boot @ 29 3/4

    68": 2.480, .765, 6.870 front boot @ 30 1/2

    Adjustment per Horton taken out of or added to the above numbers. could try binding back 1/4" as well.
  • cragginshredcragginshred Posts: 722 Crazy Baller
    This makes me so psyched because all I know in the 13 months I have been in the course is Radar and I love my Strada. Horton has skied so many different skis and to give us all this info choosing this over all the skis out there = one thing.......Lord willing, in 2014 I am riding the Vapor!
    Vapor pro 2017
    Skoot1123
  • A_BA_B Posts: 4,277 Mega Baller
    So many skis generating interest.
  • HortonHorton Posts: 29,548 Administrator
    @ab I am not sure that chart is current. every one is running bindings 1/4 forward of those settings

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  • A_BA_B Posts: 4,277 Mega Baller
    That was on a retailer website, so probably so.
    The other 68 Rossi setting was from another discussion.

    30 7/8 just sounded way too far forward for any 68" ski to me, so I went surfing around.
  • @AB - How long have you been on the Vapor? What length is your Vapor? What rope lengths are you running. What personal settings have you settled in on?
    JC McCavit
  • A_BA_B Posts: 4,277 Mega Baller
    Not on one, yet. Just passing along info I saw posted from Rini and Rossi. Collecting info for myself for next Spring. Plan to ride a couple skis next Spring, and this one is high on the list.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 1,588 Mega Baller
    Like any other ski, the settings from Rini, Rossi, or Radar are starting numbers and will not work for everyone. I tried the stock settings (from above and Hortons's numbers and neither worked well for me. I am currently at: 67": 2.490, .765, 6.872 front boot @ 29 3/4 and it is working great (for me). These settings are almost exactly what Aaron Larkin is running (though I think he may be at 2.480).
    Roger B. Clark - Okeeheelee skier. Senior driver, Senior Judge
    A_BGloersen
  • ALPJrALPJr Posts: 2,261 Mega Baller
    edited October 2013
    I am really looking forward to reading this review. Not exactly sure why, but I have been chomping at the bit much more than any other recent review.
    Waternut
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