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Moving to Reflex with R type rear

Chuck_DickeyChuck_Dickey Posts: 1,462 Crazy Baller
edited October 2013 in Skis Fins Bindings
I am moving from HO EXO's to Reflex and am wondering if anyone else has done this? My main concern is the R type rear since all my boots have held down my rear foot. How tight do you buckle the two buckles on the R type?
I tried one set with a Reflex front and Strada rear loose laces which didn't go well. With nothing holding my heel down in back I shifted my weight too far forward and had a bad OTF. My guess is I'm use to having my heel anchored and using my back leg to keep myself centered over the ski. What have you done differently when making this change?

Comments

  • ForrestGumpForrestGump Posts: 6,062
    I moved from Exos to Reflex/RTP last year, then last week went to a R Rear. If you want a anchored down heel, make sure to use the silver liner or the new reflex liner with the achilles pads. I think that the R has enough of a shell wrap over the top of the foot that you'll feel secure. In fact, it had too much for me so I trimmed the top of the shell down so it allowed similar movement to my rear toe plate while still keeping my heel from moving side to side.
    Shane "Crash" Hill

  • mylemskymylemsky Posts: 107 Baller
    If strada comfortable for you, stick a few sets with it before switching, going to be different. You are not going to get much more if any heel anchor with R style I would think.

    I had stradas, went to FM E's, then reflex with r style, I didn't get up out of the water my first try. No OTF's, but took a little time. I keep the R type buckles as loose as possible, I have the silver boot liner which takes up volume. I have run the buckles on the tighter side, for me there is a solid potential for pain upon certain release.
  • BlueSkiBlueSki Posts: 685 Crazy Baller
    I made the switch from EXO Pro to Reflex with R-style this weekend. The bindings are so much lighter than the EXOs. So far I am two sets in. I followed Mapple's advice on set up and buckling in his video that has been posted on BOS several times... very tight on the rear foot. I had a similar rear-boot-feel concern because I have been using hard shells for so long, so I decided to use the EXO liner on my rear foot just for familiarity. I took it easy for the first couple of passes but quickly felt comfortable. At first I was taking too big of a bite in my offside turns, but with a self-provided reminder I started to ski well. By the end of the first set they felt fine and in the second set I was skiing as well as I have all year, in fact, better. What was significantly different was the improvement I felt in being connected to the ski, I was not anticipating feeling that change so substantially.
  • chris_loganchris_logan Posts: 357 Crazy Baller
    edited October 2013
    I just switched from dual Strada boots to Reflex w/R style. I got comfortable on it fairly quickly, but I also didn't get up on the first try. I am now using my Strada liner (w/velcro strap around the top) in the R-style and it seems pretty comfortable. I run the buckles on it super tight and just open them when I sit down at each end and then re-buckle before next pass. I'm considering moving the middle buckle about half way closer to where it normally would be on the full boot so I can get it to hold my heel down a little better.
    Always looking for a pull... Will you be my boatdriver?
  • NandoNando Posts: 529 Crazy Baller
    I also just switched to the Reflex, w/ R style, from double Animals, and the first few rides it felt like I was coming out of the R. Tightening helped and I'm getting used to it but have considered moving the top rear buckle. Has anyone tried this and how did it affect release? I don't really want to sacrifice my ankle... Anyway my first impression of this setup was that I had MUCH better feel for the ski without the thick, padded soles of the Animals. The next was that consistent tightening of the top, front-foot buckle is critical and over-tightening it will really make the tip bite, especially the off-side! (I re-watched Andy's fitting video and will remember what he said about that.)
  • ForrestGumpForrestGump Posts: 6,062
    I have found that the top front buckle is best left just tight enough to not come undone. But that the toe and instep buckle need to be so tight that you'll have to undo them in the water after a couple of passes.
    Shane "Crash" Hill

  • BRYBRY Posts: 585 Crazy Baller
    I switched about a month ago from PS5's back to and older Reflex and Animal rear, just snugging the laces but not tightening the wrap. Felt like the ski was much lighter and much easier to stand over the middle of the ski. Best set-up 2yrs ago (before Goode) was with a Wiley rear so tried that and was worse. So got a Type R a little over a week ago and it was way better than the Animal or Wiley, ski felt much lighter yet again. Having the rear that free was weird though but I think I ski more correctly with it, more stacked all the time. This progression of bindings seems to indicate less support above the rear ankle is better, at least for me. Skiing the same scores, 4-5 @35 and running a few, a bit less consistent but everyone says I am a different skier and look way better, more stacked and way more fluid after the ball which I have been trying to do. So its like I took a step back to be able to go farther forward but didn't pay a buoy price for it.
    I have the thin old yellow liner front with tight lower two and snug upper buckle (not tight but definitely not loose). I have the low silver rear liner and tighten both like the front. As tight as I can without them cramping. Only come off once and came right out no issues.
    Still learning it and getting used to it but I'm convinced it's better. It's different and I think takes a while to get used to .
  • rockdogrockdog Posts: 565 Crazy Baller
    I am planning to move to Reflex with R-style also. You guys have got me questioning whether the R-style is a good idea, I like the idea of it but really need my heel to be secured down. It seems there is also quite a number of people running a Strada rear, anyone who can advise on pros/cons of that?

    I think running any kind of regular rubber boot rear ie Animal, Wiley (Jobe Limit which I currently use) is taking a step backwards on the safety front, so this is where I had decided on the R-style. Not sure now.
  • DeanoskiDeanoski Posts: 857 Crazy Baller
    reflex front RTP or willey rear is the way to go IMO
  • NandoNando Posts: 529 Crazy Baller
    I find the R-style much more anchored than a loop. I had been on double highwraps forever and the transition to the R was much easier than when I went from a loop to doubles. After half a dozen sets, I was pretty comfortable with the buckles tight. I'm between sizes and could have gone with a 10 shell and a thicker liner but went 8 with a thin liner up front. I have no extra room but it's like a really tight, responsive alpine ski boot- great sensitivity to what the ski is doing. And now that the water temperature up here on the frozen tundra is dropping, I can unbuckle and keep the liners on between sets...
  • BlueSkiBlueSki Posts: 685 Crazy Baller
    @rockdog, I would not hesitate to use the R-style. I had similar concerns and have found that the back foot liner is key. Just for grins, I tried a thin, but high wrapping liner on my back foot last night. I had a strap from an old Sahara dry suit around my ankle for that rear high-wrap feel. It was horrible. My back foot did not feel secure, it was hard to get out of the water, and I skied poorly. The thin liner created the problem I was concerned about. I stopped my set, put a thick liner in, not the thick one that came with the binding, but my old EXO boot. I instantly felt better. I was secure, comfortable, and skied better. The old EXO boot is very similar to the boot that came with the binding. There is enough of a heel cup with the R-style that I feel good in it. I used the thin liner that came with the bindings on the front foot and followed Mapple's tighten in recommendations.
  • Chuck_DickeyChuck_Dickey Posts: 1,462 Crazy Baller
    I've read several folks are using other than Reflex liners and am wondering if the release ability is possibly adversely effected. Extra thick liner and tight buckles seems to be risky?
  • ForrestGumpForrestGump Posts: 6,062
    Not at all. What is your reasoning for that thought?
    Shane "Crash" Hill

  • buskibuski Posts: 114 Baller
    edited October 2013
    I tried the thin liner with the front foot an the shell was a little more uncomfortable than I wanted to deal with. Also the strap on the liner always made it hard to buckle the top for me. I tried my Strada liner in the front and that solved both problems without having to order another liner.

    Then since I had the extra thin reflex liner, I tried it in the r-style and it's a lot easier to get in & out of the shell than the thick silver liner. I can buckle it tighter and it still slides out, where I would run it pretty lose on the thick liner and sometimes I'd still wonder if I'd come out. I'm sure I would have but I like the feeling of the thin liner better.
  • Chuck_DickeyChuck_Dickey Posts: 1,462 Crazy Baller
    @ShaneH
    I put my white Reflex liner on my rear foot and slipped it into the R-Style boot and tightened the two buckles snug. I tried to walk out of it lifting my heel as if going OTF and it was difficult and a bit painful across the top of my instep. So for me I think I would not want to have them tight, especially if using a thicker liner like a Strada or EXO liner. Maybe I'm wrong in thinking this and the thicker liner would come out smoother and not hurt the top of my foot? I just want to make sure my back foot doesn't stay in when the front releases.
  • ForrestGumpForrestGump Posts: 6,062
    edited October 2013
    I've got a right foot(for LFF) Size 10 Reflex R with a thin reflex liner I'm willing to part with. I still prefer a RTP. $125.
    Shane "Crash" Hill

  • WaternutWaternut Posts: 1,511 Crazy Baller
    I did the HO EXO to Reflex switch last year. The Reflex is awesome and I wish I had never wasted my time and money on the EXO's. Having skied with double boots for 3 years, I felt super comfortable putting my rear foot in the Radar RTP. It has a padded heel cup so I don't slide around. Never tried the R style though because I like getting up dragging a leg.
  • BlueSkiBlueSki Posts: 685 Crazy Baller
    The EXOs were comfortable enough, but I took the lack of HO team skiers using them as a compelling indicator.
  • slalomkennyslalomkenny Posts: 4 Baller
    I went from FM Double Quattro and now have a Reflex and R style. I was in the same position as you and didnt know if I would like the R style. So instead of buying one, I just went down to Play It Again Sports and bought an old set of roller blades, pulled up a photo of the R style, and cut down and moved rivets to directly match it. That way, I got one for me to try at low expense and another shell if a RFF friend wants one. I have loved the switch and it honestly was way easier of a conversion than expected. So long as you don't use the metal buckles, I crank those 2 buckles down as hard as my foot can stand.
  • 34mph34mph Posts: 185 Baller
    ShaneH what size is your R ?
  • socalskiersocalskier Posts: 62 Baller
    Shane what size is your r your selling?
  • ForrestGumpForrestGump Posts: 6,062
    Sorry, Size 10.
    Shane "Crash" Hill

  • mylemskymylemsky Posts: 107 Baller
    @slalomkenny why did you 86 the FM Quattro's?
  • chris_loganchris_logan Posts: 357 Crazy Baller
    @mylemsky I believe the switch was due to how they released and subsequent surgery.
    Always looking for a pull... Will you be my boatdriver?
  • slalomkennyslalomkenny Posts: 4 Baller
    @mylemsky chris_logan is right that I had an injury while using them, but I think I would have gotten injured in almost anything on the fall. I had a really large torque on my knee and just didnt release soon enough. Anyway, the other reason is that they are badly designed for the release method. On a set of Fogmans, the base plate is made of a rigid alum or G10 plate. The Quattro's have a flexible plastic plate. With a release pin configuration like this, the tighter you set the release, the harder it should be to release right? Well, that is so if you have a rigid plate. If you have a flexible plate, the greater tension you set on the pin makes the plate want to buckle off of the ski more and thus requires more interloc. It's just a huge mess to get the balance right so that it releases properly. If you don't machine your own plate for it, I would not go with that set up.
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