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[Moderated Topic] Micro adjustment for bindings available

OTFOTF Posts: 325 Crazy Baller
edited November 2013 in Skis Fins Bindings
Hey ballers, a while back @horton made a request for an attachment that would give more options and make small accurate adjustments to binding placement.
The attached image shows an assembly we are currently manufacturing to accomplish this. This attachment allows you to make adjustments of under 1/16 of an inch accurately and quickly. They are made from 6061 aluminum and finished with a black anodize. There will be a website up soon with links for purchase as well as adjustment and mounting videos. The unit will be priced at $75.00 ea and will include the bits and hardware necessary to mount as well as shipping within the U.S. There will also be an option to have us mount this to your plate using our precision milling machine for you if you are concerned about damaging your plate. This charge will be an extra $20.00. If you would like to purchase now you can contact me through my ball of spray account. We are working to get the website up and running for this coming week. I anticipate a 2-3 week delivery time right now as we are just starting to build these units in production.

Have a great weekend!
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Wish
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Comments

  • davemacdavemac Posts: 450 Baller
    @OTF, could you clarify pricing of $75/unit? Does each plate require 1 or 2 unit(s)?
    Thanks.
    tjm
  • HortonHorton Posts: 27,777 Administrator
    @davemac
    Each plate needs only one unit. I can not speak for these guys specifically but seems that everyone that looked at this project came to the conclusion that the second side made things complicated and did not add any value.

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  • OTFOTF Posts: 325 Crazy Baller
    Each plate only needs 1. The original plan was for two, after we mounted the first side we quickly saw no reason for a second.
  • gregygregy Posts: 2,583 Mega Baller
    Nice
  • ToddLToddL Posts: 2,822 Mega Baller
    edited November 2013
    So, let me confirm what wasn't noted above, but appears to be evident in the pics...

    For this to work, your binding system must have slots for the front and rear screws. Your binding would typically also have a series of machined holes for the middle screw to mount the binding at set positions.

    This solution requires that the middle screw's series of holes be drilled out until it also resembles a long slot. (So, now all screw mount positions in the plate are all slots.) The new unit is attached to the binding plate via a small (counter sunk?) screw. The interlocking track and screw "washer" allow for you to line up your bolt with your insert in your ski while allowing the 1/16th adjustments based upon these two pieces nesting together.

    This solution also requires converting the other side of the plate's middle screw holes into a slot even though the interlocking unit is only required on one side. This is because the standard binding mounting screw will still be used on that side once the new adjustment unit has been set.

    In the case of the Radar Sequence plate, the modification is made to the middle mounting screw location converting the holes into a slot as well.

    If the user's binding plate does not currently have slots for the front and rear screw mounts, those would also need to be modified into slots for this to work. Stand-off washers may or may not be needed for those front/rear screws.

    Did I get this right?

    Questions:
    Does it come with a slightly longer mounting bolt to properly seat in the ski insert through the thicker unit & plate?
    Does the side w/o the unit require any additional washer or set washer to work given the slot?


    -- The future of skiing depends upon welcoming novice skiers regardless of age to our sport.
  • BrewskiBrewski Posts: 409 Crazy Baller
    Cool stuff~!
  • OTFOTF Posts: 325 Crazy Baller
    @todd You are correct, the plate needs to have slots anywhere that there is a screw in order for the adjustment to work correctly. The screw that locks the clamp down is longer than the standards to ensure good thread engagement. The extra aluminum washer that's needed for the slot opposite the adjusting attachment is included in the hardware.
    I will add that when I attached the prototype to my animal plate I attached it over one of the rear slots and skipped the center holes all together. That being said one could attach this over an existing slot, find your setting by making the small adjustments and then only drill/slot a small portion of the existing screw holes in the center of the plate giving you the clearance you would need to fasten the center of the binding down and have some adjustment left. In the end I ended up machining slots out of all of my center holes.
  • MattPMattP Posts: 6,001 Mega Baller
    It's cool. It works. Buy lots. @OTF beat me to it but I support him!
  • WishWish Posts: 7,850 ★★★Triple Panda Award Recipient ★★★
    @OTF way to go man!!. That thing is cool.!!. Not gonna work with my binding plate ;-) but still way cool. Oh wait, actually it might. just need longer screws. A lot longer.
    >>> 11.25..a different kettle of fish. <<<
  • OTFOTF Posts: 325 Crazy Baller
    @wish let me know how tall that riser plate of yours in and I'll send the right hardware along with it.
    Wish
  • JohnCoxJohnCox Posts: 357 Crazy Baller
    That looks very interesting...

    Perhaps you could partner up with binding manufacturers and have that incorporated in to new bindings (not that I'm ever going to buy any new bindings...)
    Mapple T2
    www.mappleskis.com
  • HortonHorton Posts: 27,777 Administrator
    @ob seriously.... please

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  • Mrs_MSMrs_MS Posts: 317 Crazy Baller
    Way to go OTF :)
    You worked hard on this with a lot of thought.
    I ski for fun, just the wife!
  • KcSwerverKcSwerver Posts: 389 Baller
    edited November 2013
    @OTF could you explain the need for a washer on the opposite side of the attachment? I'm trying to visualize any extra hardware other than where the thing is. Thanks!
  • SkiJaySkiJay Posts: 2,314 Mega Baller
    edited November 2013
    Nicely done @OTF. I'll take one.
    Would you consider selling me a new Radar Sequence plate with the slots milled, or would you prefer that I ship you a plate for milling?
    www.FinWhispering.com ... Your ski should be your dance partner, not a wrestling opponent
  • ZmanZman Posts: 1,499 Crazy Baller
    @SkiJay With a Radar sequence plate you can already make fore and aft adjustments in 1/8 inch increments. You see value in finer increments than that?
    I could see using this item for standard boot plates that only adjust in 3/16 or 1/4 inch increments. But, I would have thought 1/8 inch adjustments would be plenty fine enough for most skiers. IMHO
  • ToddLToddL Posts: 2,822 Mega Baller
    @Zman - my guess is that when a skier is told by several people that the optimal binding placement is 29 1/2" and his or her factory binding plate forces the skier to chose between 29 7/16" or 29 5/8", the skier might be wondering "what if I could get perfectly on 29 1/2..." I could totally see some skiers go there.
    -- The future of skiing depends upon welcoming novice skiers regardless of age to our sport.
  • ZmanZman Posts: 1,499 Crazy Baller
    @ToddL Totally agree. But, with Radar Sequence, if I could get either 29-7/16" or 29-9/16" I am pretty sure I am good to go....one of those will work just fine.
    That said, I do like the design of this little gadget. Looks like some creativity in taking a micro adjustment feature found in other uses and making it work for water ski boots also.
  • ToddLToddL Posts: 2,822 Mega Baller
    edited November 2013
    I agree. I'm not sure that my COM (weight) over my ski is consistent enough to make 1/4 inch adjustments really matter! LOL! Still, I guess there is an average body position for every skier and you want that to work with your boot settings. Skiers who are very quiet and consistent will likely be able to feel the difference of those finer adjustment options. So, I think this is an excellent solution.

    Great product and great idea.
    -- The future of skiing depends upon welcoming novice skiers regardless of age to our sport.
  • bishop8950bishop8950 Posts: 1,133 Open or 55K Rated Skier
    Great idea. Simple and effective.

    @zman I want 1/16" movements. Not everyone will. I do. My bindings plates are all slotted so I can move as little as you can imagine. If the screws lossen the plate can move, which is where the benefits of the @OTF rig are clear.
  • ZmanZman Posts: 1,499 Crazy Baller
    @bishop8950 I missed the added benefit of more securely locking down your plate when not using the center holes. I used to do the same with my Animals, leave out the center screws so I could adjust the plate as little as I wanted. I see now how this gadget will keep the plate from moving when not using the center holes (or when slotting the center holes as @OTF suggested).
  • HortonHorton Posts: 27,777 Administrator
    @ToddL maybe 1/16th is not something you would feel but I am sure 1/4 is huge for anyone rounding balls.

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    MasterCraft ★ Masterline ★ Performance Ski and Surf ★ Reflex ★ Radar ★ Stokes

    ToddL
  • SkiJaySkiJay Posts: 2,314 Mega Baller
    edited November 2013
    @Zman I'm on a Nano One XT which has the front inserts for the back binding too wide to work with the Sequence's rear set of center holes. I can only use the forward-center holes and have been back and forth between the only holes I can use enough that splitting the difference is appealing.

    I agree that 1/8 is as fine as I would ever likely need, but won't be surprised if 1/16 ends up being used since it's there. I've skied over 1,100 sets in the past three years, over 400 this year, and find myself noticing the tiniest of changes lately.
    www.FinWhispering.com ... Your ski should be your dance partner, not a wrestling opponent
  • ToddLToddL Posts: 2,822 Mega Baller
    @Horton - yep.
    -- The future of skiing depends upon welcoming novice skiers regardless of age to our sport.
  • ZmanZman Posts: 1,499 Crazy Baller
    @SkiJay Gotcha. This gadget is just what you need for that. On another topic....I am jealous you are on the Nano One XT. I'm still on a 9800SL.
  • OTFOTF Posts: 325 Crazy Baller
    @KcSwerver you will need to make a slot out of the set of holes on the opposite side of the plate from the adjuster as well. The reason this needs to be done is so that when adjustments are made the screw opposite the adjuster has clearance to be able to clamp. Without doing this it would end up not lining up due to the material in between the current set of holes being in the way and covering the threaded insert. We include one of the aluminum recessed slot washers to use in the new slot. You shouldn't need anything outside of what we send along to mount this to your set up.
  • GarnGarn Posts: 495 Crazy Baller
    Seventy Five bucks seems like a LOT for such a small thing.
  • kstateskierkstateskier Posts: 524 Solid Baller
    Don't take my question the wrong way as I fully support innovations like this in the ski industry, however if I slot out my middle holes on my animal plates why would I need this $75 gadget as I'd have any and all adjustability forwards and backwards with the placement of my front binding?

    Or will slots all around allow the binding to move (or slide forward or backwards) over time without a hard hole mount?
    KStateSkier
    Bradley Beach - Lone Rock Ski Club, Missouri
    2004 Malibu Response LXI, 2014 D3 Helix 66"
  • kstateskierkstateskier Posts: 524 Solid Baller
    In addition $75 seems like ALOT for a small piece of milled plastic... I'm sure there's been alot of R&D and testing costs that need to be recouped, but $75 each? wow!
    KStateSkier
    Bradley Beach - Lone Rock Ski Club, Missouri
    2004 Malibu Response LXI, 2014 D3 Helix 66"
  • Chef23Chef23 Posts: 5,961 Mega Baller
    edited November 2013
    @kstateskier my understanding is that it reduces the risk of the plate sliding. If you only have slots in the middle instead of holes you run the risk of the binding moving around. I believe this is supposed to prevent that. In addition it is milled aluminum not plastic. Given the equipment, time, material costs, R&D and low volume I can see where the cost is.

    @OTF or @Horton could probably comment better on it.
    Mark Shaffer
    Horton
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