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Hips forward, counter rotate, and be patient = the basics of an effective slalom turn

After reading many threads these three things seem to be the most mentioned and easiest to generalize what is needed to make an efficient slalom turn. If you where going to make a decal with three things to focus on that would go on the top of your ski so you see it between each pass what three things would you put? I realize that there many different ways to say these same things but these seem like the simplest way for me to keep it simple and build from there.
Horton

Comments

  • HortonHorton Posts: 27,871 Administrator
    I think counter rotate is way over sold. There is real value but it is so often miss applied. I for one struggle with too much counter rotation with my shoulders. Fixing this is one of many things I would like to change about my skiing.

    Inside shoulder high, less counter, initiate the turn with my lower body, and handle control would could be on my sticker.

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  • bishop8950bishop8950 Posts: 1,139 Open or 55K Rated Skier
    Great question. There must be basic recurring themes that will help us focus and simplify eh? The challenge is each of us getting our own list of cues dialed in. Mine...

    In the turn - Balance (forward/back as well as left/right), patience, move into the spot where you want the rope to tighten (don't rip the handle in)

    Getting of topic, but I think what we do side to side is most critical. The turns are so much easier when you do the right thing behind the boat. So side to side - don't add load or move away from the pylon, level/open (focus more than reality) awareness of where we want to move out so we enable the edge change. If there were a fourth, the balance between staying on the handle with two hands but not pulling too long.

    I bet 90% if the time I am working on one of these things.
    jipster43Hortonjimbrake
  • mwetskiermwetskier Posts: 1,329 Mega Baller
    my 3 are stacked behind the boat handle pressure outbound and turn with the inside hip.
  • Ed_JohnsonEd_Johnson Posts: 2,118
    edited November 2013
    My sticker would be what "Not to Do," and that would say "DON'T ROTATE" !!!

    As @Horton correctly said, " initiate the turn with my lower body." There is nothing more frustrating than to be set up perfectly at the apex, then the subconcious says "TURN," and Bam, you rotate the upper body into the turn..Down goes the inside shoulder and if your not in the Lake. you just over-rotated, and Superman could not hold on to that amount of angle..Well maybe Jeff Rodgers could.

    So "Patience" would be a good sticker to solve that problem, but that requires you to do nothing, and I find it harder to do nothing, than satisfy the craving to do something...So now I'm back to my original sticker, "DON'T ROTATE."

    Special Thanks to Performance Ski and Surf and the Denali Adam's !!!
    jimbrake
  • ToddLToddL Posts: 2,822 Mega Baller
    Get Stacked. Stay on the Handle. Stay up heading into the buoy.

    When I do this, everything sort of works better, easier.
    -- The future of skiing depends upon welcoming novice skiers regardless of age to our sport.
    GroovyGrant
  • ozskiozski Posts: 1,660
    Offside - Mindset - Always reach from a tall level position. - must be at least centered if not front foot heavy. Rotate hip to handle. Onside - same but I can get away with much more.
    'Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better.'' Boat 2005 Nautique 196 6L ZO - Ski - KD Platinum

  • ZmanZman Posts: 1,515 Crazy Baller
    Maintain handle low and into the body; tall coming to the buoy; initiate turn with lower body.
  • DragoDrago Posts: 1,588 Mega Baller
    We are all different and my ki's will be different than yours, eventhough they are actually the same thing. I have found, though, that 3 are too many . Pick the main 2 that effect your skiing the most. My 2: face "downhill", keep the handle.
    I agree with @ Horton. (Again? , what the...) counter rotating is highly overrated.
    SR SL Judge & Driver (“a driver who is super late on the wheel and is out of sync”)
  • SkiJaySkiJay Posts: 2,314 Mega Baller
    My current sticker would be "eyes high with head level." This alone benefits my shoulders, stack, speed, timing, and balance.
    www.FinWhispering.com ... Your ski should be your dance partner, not a wrestling opponent
    jimbrakeSkoot1123
  • ZmanZman Posts: 1,515 Crazy Baller
    @SkiJay If your sticker will be "eyes high with head level" - you better find a different place than your ski to put your sticker on. :)
    Maybe a giant billboard at the each of your lake....
    KcSwerver
  • SkiJaySkiJay Posts: 2,314 Mega Baller
    That would actually be perfect @Zman!
    www.FinWhispering.com ... Your ski should be your dance partner, not a wrestling opponent
  • ForrestGumpForrestGump Posts: 6,061
    Reminds me of the time we were teaching a new skier this past year. I told her to look at the trees rather than the wake and I pointed to a tree beside the lake. We got her up and she tried to keep that ONE tree in her vision the entire way down the lake. It was hysterical.
    Shane "Crash" Hill

    MattPSkiJayToddLWish
  • A_BA_B Posts: 4,147 Mega Baller
    I think my old Goode 9100/9500 did not need as much counter as my current skis. Could it be the added weight, ZO, new fin setups that don't stall the ski, getting older and weaker? I don't know the answer to this, but do know that in order for my ski to finish with proper angle on my offside turn, I need to counter rotate into it.

    My onside is a different story.. Same grip and rip as usual.
  • ZmanZman Posts: 1,515 Crazy Baller
    @ShaneH Blonde?
    A_B
  • Deep11Deep11 Posts: 221 Solid Baller
    I see a lot of the guys who talk about counter rotating making it an upper body movement, when really it's a hip / knee / ankle tension thing - starting at the shoulders makes no sense. If you're flexible not much happens anyway.
    I'm with @Ed_Johnson the real reason folk think about counter rotating is so as not to rotate. Rotating into the turn kills it every time.
  • DustyDusty Posts: 315 Baller
    I could easily pick any two already mentioned, and I am convinced "counter rotating" is misunderstood and often mis-applied. To paraphrase a ski pal- "there are probably a half dozen ways to do that- (counter rotate) and five of them are wrong"... What I take from that notion is if I am already balanced (however unlikely) over the ski then an unnatural movement with trailing arm, shoulder, hips etc, means some kind of recovery will be required, and is not a recipe for success...
    SkiJay
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