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The Skinny on the 2014 D3 Quest & Two New Rockerblocks

SkiJaySkiJay Posts: 2,314 Mega Baller
edited November 2013 in Skis Fins Bindings
image

I had a nice conversation with D3's Paul Crawford today, and learned a bit about the 2014 Quest and two new Rockerblocks. The 2014 Quest is a tweaked version of the 2013 ski--not just a new top sheet. It's not a radical departure in any way, but there's been some fine tuning to the layup and rocker. The new layup gives the ski a bit more torsional stiffness, and the flat spot has been moved back slightly.

The range of three Rockerblocks (four if you include their flat block) is indeed intended to provide another tool for ski tuning. The R30 comes stock on the new Quest. In addition, there will shortly be an R45 and an R60 available, each adding more rocker to the tail of a ski. They will be selling them individually, and in a package of three at a discounted price to buying them individually. All of them fit all D3 skis going way back. This means they can be used on the X5, RC, Z, Rose, etc.

Bolting any of these Rockerblocks to any of these skis will add more rocker to the tail of that ski. The more rocker you have in the tail, the easier the ski will turn and the more angle you will have at the exit from the ball. The tradeoff is speed and effort. In fact the tail of the Quest is quite flat until the R30 is bolted to it. Not surprisingly, Paul has played around with all these Rockerblocks and this is his current read on them. He found the R60 made the Quest turn like crazy up through -28 and -32, but at shorter lines than that, the ski turned too aggressively for his taste, and reducing the rocker became a better setup.

On the other hand, the R60 is a wonderful tool for making any D3 ski turn easier for less experienced and less aggressive skiers. "Novices will love how easily the ski turns with an R60 on it," reported Paul, "and the extra angle helps novices as well." For more advanced skiers, if you find yourself having to force the tail of your ski around turns, which can cause wheelies etc., adding a little more rocker to the tail can both bring the tip down and make turning easier.

There you have it. The 2014 ski is an improved design, and variable tail rocker allows for that much more personalization of your favorite D3 ski.
www.FinWhispering.com ... Your ski should be your dance partner, not a wrestling opponent
ozskiHortonLZywicki1jipster43bishop8950Skoot1123DooSPX
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Comments

  • ozskiozski Posts: 1,656
    edited November 2013
    Ok this is serious now, all my D3 gear is red and black to match the old Quest...
    'Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better.'' Boat 2005 Nautique 196 6L ZO - Ski - KD Platinum

  • ThePantsManCanThePantsManCan Posts: 453 Baller
    Will a RockerBlock mount up to an HO ski???
    60% of the time, it works.... All the time.
  • GloersenGloersen Posts: 916 Crazy Baller
    edited November 2013
    @ThePantsManCan - negative on a HO; different hole pattern (only fits D3's)
  • BrewskiBrewski Posts: 409 Crazy Baller
    edited November 2013
    Hole patterns are the same on previous years so they should mount up....
  • HortonHorton Posts: 27,773 Administrator
    @brewski HO and D3 have always been a different hole pattern.

    Radar and HO are the same. all the other patterns don't match each other

    Support BallOfSpray by supporting the companies that support BallOfSpray

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  • BrewskiBrewski Posts: 409 Crazy Baller
    @Horton, I was just taking a measure. They are off slightly. I was remembering HO/Radar. My bad~!
  • ThePantsManCanThePantsManCan Posts: 453 Baller
    Time to take the HO Syndicate S2 Fin Block to the Machinist!!
    60% of the time, it works.... All the time.
    Wish
  • Ed_ObermeierEd_Obermeier Posts: 1,339 Crazy Baller
    So adding one of the rocker blocks to any old D3 ski requires that the 6 small inserts the block mounts to hold and maintain quite a bit of constant tension so you can force rocker into the tail of the ski without the inserts pulling out of the ski. Anyone see an issue with that?
    Ed Obermeier - owner, EZ-Slalom Course Systems
    www.ez-slalom.com
    Waternut
  • bishop8950bishop8950 Posts: 1,132 Open or 55K Rated Skier
    edited November 2013
    @skikay spot on. I have done plenty of testing. I think it's an easy way to tune the way the ski turns, in addition to traditional fin tuning with flat blocks

    @ed obermeier no issues bending the tail of the ski to fit the rocker block.
  • mwetskiermwetskier Posts: 1,329 Mega Baller
    i would think the tail bends fairly easy without a fin block, and a standard fin block actually restricts the flex plus the fin make a vertical rib to further help resist flexing. so if nothing else the rocker block would give the tail more static arc but i dont think it would require much force to bend the tail to fit it.
  • aussiemcaussiemc Posts: 130 Baller
    Why can't you put different thickness Washers/Packers under the centre screws of any ski's fin block to create rocker in the tail?
  • ForrestGumpForrestGump Posts: 6,052
    You will pull out the inserts if you do that.
    Shane "Crash" Hill

  • aussiemcaussiemc Posts: 130 Baller
    If the tail of the D3 is flat prior to installing the Rocker Block, what's the difference. (unless D3 have deliberately strengthened the inserts)
  • gator1gator1 Posts: 591 Crazy Baller
    @aussiemc: Right. Or, they weakened the tail?
  • ForrestGumpForrestGump Posts: 6,052
    Because you create a gap between the block and ski, which concentrates all the load in the carbon surrounding the inserts rather than distributing it out. The inserts will start to move and will eventually loosen.
    Shane "Crash" Hill

  • gator1gator1 Posts: 591 Crazy Baller
    uncle
  • aussiemcaussiemc Posts: 130 Baller
    No gap between insert and fin block if you use washers or packers on the insert, it may create a little more tension but probably no more than the ski trying to flex against a flat block. (If that happens, I'm no expert in ski flex/design)

    I'm not suggesting doing this, I was just commenting for the people that wanted to try the rocker block on different skis, (that holes don't match), could achieve the same tail rocker with packers.
  • mwetskiermwetskier Posts: 1,329 Mega Baller
    @ShaneH -your distributing the load theory only applies if your supporting the tail near the end screws and trying to push the center area downward but your not. your really holding the center area down with the belly of the pre curved block and pulling up each end of the ski with the screws so all the load will be on the screws and inserts. shouldnt make any difference if you put washers under the center screws or use a pre curved block instead.
  • bishop8950bishop8950 Posts: 1,132 Open or 55K Rated Skier
    I am not an engineer and don't know the answer, but washers would put the strain in one place where the block distributes over an arc. I am thinking log splitter single point of contact. Not saying the ski would break, but distribution over an arc must be better?
  • mwetskiermwetskier Posts: 1,329 Mega Baller
    @bishop8950 -i design and build adaptive devices for differently abled govt personel for a living and work with all kinds of braces and other devices that have to be small but still handle and absorb large loads. you can distribute the load over an arc as you say but that only protects the ski surface and cuts down the chance of a break at the mid point it doesnt reduce the total load on your anchor points. if you had a bunch of screws along the arc they could share the load and reduce it for each screw but with just the 2 anchor points at the far ends of the curved block those screws still have to take the entire load of flexing the tail over that arc thats just a mechanical fact.
    Drago
  • bishop8950bishop8950 Posts: 1,132 Open or 55K Rated Skier
    edited November 2013
    @mwetskier - agreed. I wasnt talking about insert load. I was thinking of the increased (slightly?) chance of breaking at the midpoint.

    I have mounted all the different Rockerblocks and think we are talking way too much about this. Mount one yourself and you will see the ski easily bends to fit even the 60 Rockerblock. Its not an issue
    Ed_ObermeierSkiJayHorton
  • GloersenGloersen Posts: 916 Crazy Baller
    @bishop8950- does the 30/45/60 designation refer to amount of added tail rocker in 100th"s, i.e., RB45 = + .045"?
  • bishop8950bishop8950 Posts: 1,132 Open or 55K Rated Skier
    @gloersen, it's measured on the block not the ski. I am pretty sure a 60 block has 30 thousands "lift" on each end or 60 total and the ski would have more than +60 if measured at the tail.

    It's easy to feel when you ski. It's a new dimetion in tuning. I rode the 60 all last fall and ended up feeling that was too much for me. The ski turned too hard and I would load the line too soon. Others love the 60.
  • GloersenGloersen Posts: 916 Crazy Baller
    @bishop8950 - thanks for the edification.
  • Steven_HainesSteven_Haines Posts: 1,033 ★★★Triple Panda Award Recipient ★★★
    @bishop8950, in your opinion, which block would be a good start point? Do you think the 45 would be a good happy medium or just go with the standard 30? I'd like to try one on another ski and don't have a Quest to rob the rocker block from.
  • mwetskiermwetskier Posts: 1,329 Mega Baller
    edited December 2013
    if you wanted to try the concept for free you could add self adhesive shims in the form of layers of tape to the bottom of your fin block. use a non spongy tape that you measure with your tuning caliper and layer it thicker toward the middle until you get the desired transition. wont be as exact or durable as a machined block but you could sure find out if you like what it does before you buy the real deal. after you add tape and replace the block you would have to re tune your fin to your old numbers.
  • SkiJaySkiJay Posts: 2,314 Mega Baller
    @Steven_Haines I'm curious to hear @bishop8950's response too. For what it's worth in the meantime, Paul Crawford did say that they found the R30 most popular and that's why it comes standard on the Quest.
    www.FinWhispering.com ... Your ski should be your dance partner, not a wrestling opponent
  • bishop8950bishop8950 Posts: 1,132 Open or 55K Rated Skier
    @steven Haines it depends on the ski and skier. On a Quest (or X7 or Fusion) 30 is the right place to start. We (D3 guys) are curious to see what the statistical distribution will be in time. My guess: No one will go back to a flat block. Most will like the 30. Some will prefer the 45 and a few will love the 60. Time will tell

    Starting point on another brand will depend on that ski. If you really want it to turn harder, try the 60. For a smaller tweak try the 30. I don't think there could be a baseline reccomendation given how different all the skis out there are. I am sure you will notice the change from flat to 30 or 30 to 60 on any ski. Just not sure what you will like in the end.
  • WaternutWaternut Posts: 1,511 Crazy Baller
    Out of curiosity, are there different fin settings for each rocker block or are they supposed to be baselined with the same fin numbers?
  • bishop8950bishop8950 Posts: 1,132 Open or 55K Rated Skier
    edited December 2013
    @waternut I ran the same fin settings so I could feel the Rockerblock only. I probably always will. But the really dialed fin tweakers out there may feel like tweaks in the fin settings work with different blocks.
    Waternut
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