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New slalom rule up for vote

jdarwinjdarwin Posts: 1,381 ★★★Triple Panda Award Recipient ★★★
edited January 2014 in Rules/Politics/Issues
At the upcoming board meeting, there is a rule proposal that would allow the skier to miss the entrance gates on their opening pass, complete the pass, complete the subsequent pass and score. In other words, miss your 22-off gate, ski all 6 buoys, come back at 28-off, make the entrance gates and run all 6, you get a "pass" for missing the 22-off gates. But if you miss or fall at 28-off, you score zero. Thoughts?
Joe Darwin
GloersenBradyBulldog
«1345

Comments

  • Mateo_VargasMateo_Vargas Posts: 913 ★★★Triple Panda Award Recipient ★★★
    If it is just for the opening pass I don't think it is worth the trouble.
    Success is failure that just hasn't happened yet
    RadarWiedmerMickeyThompson
  • ForrestGumpForrestGump Posts: 6,220
    Yeah, not really worth it just for the opener.
    Shane "Crash" Hill

  • KelvinKelvin Posts: 1,277 Mega Baller
    Changes happen incrementally. If we want to make changes, it's a step in that direction. There are also some changes to allow Class X experimental rounds so that data can be gathered on the subject.
    Kelvin Kelm, Lakes of Katy, Katy Texas
    Bradytrishel41jipster43
  • MattPMattP Posts: 6,263 Mega Baller
    I like this over the gate stuff Gordon had been proposing.
  • mrpreussmrpreuss Posts: 133 Baller
    It's a great idea. Please pass it.
    For kids, newcomers and one round tournaments this would really make a difference.
    I have NEVER, EVER missed my gates but it WILL help those who might be at their first big tournament and are nervous at a new site.
    No tournament is won from someones opening pass.
    MattPBradymadcityskierjipster43
  • thagerthager Posts: 5,211 Mega Baller
    edited January 2014
    Boat has to come back to the other end for the next skier anyway. Would be a step in the right direction especially for new guys/gals.
    Stir vigorously then leave!
    Skoot1123schafer
  • jayskijayski Posts: 1,022 Mega Baller
    Does there have to be 'intent' on the opening pass to go through the gates or could a skier pull out to the right of the boat before the gates and turn at one ball?
  • Bruce_ButterfieldBruce_Butterfield Posts: 1,903 Member of the BallOfSpray Hall Of Fame
    Good idea, but it should be for every pass. Treat it like an opt up on a slow time re-ride. That is, you must complete the next pass (with gates) to get credit for everything previous.

    The extreme would be you can miss the gates on 3 passes and if you make your 4th pass with good gates, you're good.
    I'm Ancient. WTH do I know?
    MISkierBradyskidawg
  • Texas6Texas6 Posts: 2,197
    I concur with Bruce
    Daryn Dean - Lakes of Katy, TX
    ***Robbed out of Hundreds of Panda Worthy Posts***
  • mrpreussmrpreuss Posts: 133 Baller
    George it's about kids, newcomers, new skiers, new sites...
    We need more participation...
    It's not really about skiers at your level
    MattPBradyTonyaMaurer
  • DavidPDavidP Posts: 184 Baller
    I think the proposed rule change is a good, harmless way to decrease the anxiety for the kids and those new to the sport. Please vote for it.
    David Panneton - LakePort Water Ski Club, formerly known as Muddy Waters
    mrpreussTonyaMaurer
  • jdarwinjdarwin Posts: 1,381 ★★★Triple Panda Award Recipient ★★★
    @OB - it's a step in the right direction to make the sport more inclusive.
    Joe Darwin
  • GloersenGloersen Posts: 1,097 Mega Baller
    edited January 2014
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    Brady
  • MISkierMISkier Posts: 3,181 Mega Baller
    I agree with Bruce's suggestion. But, if we are going to do this, shouldn't the resulting score fall into a different classification and/or be excluded from rankings? We would still get the benefit of including new skiers and allowing them to run complete passes, minus the entrance gates, for a "score" - if their last pass included a good gate. But, their score for this "opt-up" method is not the same as a class C, etc. score. They still get to run more passes and obtain some measurement of an achievement, just not the same level of score. They get a recorded score, a correlating ranking, and get to compete with others electing that same "opt-up" option. Take the pressure off, get more skiers participating, but recognize the difference in rules formally.
    The worst slalom equipment I own is between my ears.
  • RazorRoss3RazorRoss3 Posts: 1,382 Mega Baller
    I'd say you could have that rule for a skiers first year of competition, maybe their first two. But I wouldn't want to see it across the board forever.
  • eleeskieleeski Posts: 3,977 Infinite Pandas
    More gate judging mistakes are made on a skiers opening pass than any other. Site quirks cause opening pass gate misses. And the top pass determines the winner - not the opening gates. You still need to be competent to run the opt up and get a score. The boat has to go down and back anyhow.
    Excellent idea!
    Eric
  • WishWish Posts: 8,269 ★★★Triple Panda Award Recipient ★★★
    This was exactly the discussion after the SkierPaloza at Performance. Bunch of pros and coaches talking out this exact idea. None disagreed with it. All were in favor and said it made the most sense. I think it makes sense.
    >>> 11.25..a different kettle of fish. <<<
    mrpreussCWiedmer
  • A_BA_B Posts: 4,306 Mega Baller
    At golf scramble outings, you can buy mulligans....

    If we change, and I'm not saying we should, it should be any pass, and you go forward with the blown gate pass at risk unless you run the entire next pass.
  • WishWish Posts: 8,269 ★★★Triple Panda Award Recipient ★★★
    edited January 2014
    That is what the group at SkierPaluza were suggesting. U miss the gate and make your next pass, full credit for both at any line length. I think it would help a great deal for us non ZO users to acclimate with that first or maybe second pass not being so critical on the gates.
    >>> 11.25..a different kettle of fish. <<<
    Than_BoganGloersen
  • HortonHorton Posts: 30,586 Administrator
    This whole thing is a reminder that @jdarwin lives in a state with drive-through-daiquiri stands. Clearly he was drunk and screwing with us with he started this thread.

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  • MattPMattP Posts: 6,263 Mega Baller
    edited January 2014
    @horton you are just jealous you don't have drive through margritta stands out there in Northern Mexico.
  • Than_BoganThan_Bogan Posts: 6,913 Mega Baller
    I think the word that best describes this proposal is "inelegant."

    I get the idea behind it and generally support making things more friendly and more fun to watch.

    But this creates a wacky special case in the rules, adding complexity while not truly addressing the problem anyhow.
    Nathaniel Bogan -- GUT Padawan
  • nzwaterskinzwaterski Posts: 40 Baller
    Small tournaments can give a ruling like fall or miss a buoy on your first pass you get a second life. Makes it a more worthh entering if your not confident or your first few tournaments. At least this gives you more than 1 pass for a day
  • RichardDoaneRichardDoane Posts: 4,589 Mega Baller
    go through the gates, it's not that hard, save the do-overs and mulligans for class F events
    BallOfSpray Pacific Northwest Vice President of Event Management, aka "Zappy"
  • HortonHorton Posts: 30,586 Administrator
    @TFIN for president!

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  • WishWish Posts: 8,269 ★★★Triple Panda Award Recipient ★★★
    I totally was for the change until @TFIN spoke up. Now I'm with him. Cheers to you Trent for seeing our sport as difficult for Joe public to understand and how this would complicate things even further. I'll stand on my soap box breafly here and add to the uncomplicating things for Joe public....... STOP ANOUNCING IN LINE OFF AT BIG PRO STOPS!!! you cannot make it any less complicated then saying how much rope is left. Stepping down now. I had no idea the boat judge had no say. Always thought they did. That makes NO sence. Why were they pulled off of calling gates.?
    >>> 11.25..a different kettle of fish. <<<
  • HortonHorton Posts: 30,586 Administrator
    edited January 2014
    Joking aside, I talked to @jdarwin & he makes a good argument for this rule change. I happen to dislike the idea but I understand what he is saying.

    ONE of my issues with this idea is it mostly benefits skiers who normally ski class C events. Outside of Florida most of us ski Class C tournaments. Unless you are honestly trying to break a record or are worried about world standings there is not a lot of reasons to ski in higher level tournaments.

    In a class C event with typical judges tower placements, one shore judge can see if the skier missed the gates, the other shore judge can't see crap and the boat judge usually can't tell. My point is that for most skiers at most tournaments you can totally miss your gates all the time and will never get caught. As far as I am concerned this is fine. It happens from time to time and it not the end of the world. We all know that if we go to higher level event everything is tighter.

    If one the other hand you are at a Class L or R because you are a very high end skier you have the chops to get between the balls.

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  • HortonHorton Posts: 30,586 Administrator
    edited January 2014
    I also totally agree with @TFIN that what needs to be changed is the way gate judging is done. I say the judges get 90 seconds to figure it out and if they are not sure the skier moves on. This is especially important at record events where judges can get lost in the tech of video review.

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  • ToddLToddL Posts: 2,859 Mega Baller
    edited January 2014
    If we are looking for incremental changes, then why not change the gate rule to ignore the left ball on entrance and the right ball on exit? A skier who is too late on entrance or too early on exit is only making it harder on him or herself. I've seen newbies make these mistakes and have their gates cut. Heck if you can miss the gates late and still run the buoys, you should get extra credit!

    Regarding this proposal, I am for it to a degree. If a skier misses -22 opener gates, then comes back at -28 with good gates but fails to complete the pass - the score should not be zero. It should at least be the buoys at -28 as if that was the opener.

    I submitted several proposals including this one. I also recommended limits on gate reviews. The basic idea was to make a questionable gate moot by letting the skier continue without delay. If the subsequent pass is skied with valid gates, then the prior pass' gate issue becomes moot. The delays due to technical reviews are a crowd killer. Time limits make sense.
    -- The future of skiing depends upon welcoming novice skiers regardless of age to our sport.
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