Presenting - WhisperFin #1

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Comments

  • jimbrakejimbrake Posts: 1,278 Mega Baller
    Just an update on my setup/adjustment process if anyone is interested or is going through the same process and getting different feels. I went through the process of sequential forward binding moves with the fin set at the initial setting that Jay advises. I'm on a 67" D3 EVO (2018 model). I started with my front boot all the way back at 29 5/8 then went to 29 3/4, then 30.0 +/- (I was measuring with my back boot in the way so having to eye it). 30 is too far forward for me. I ride the front pretty hard anyway and at 30 it was dumping me in on my onside. Moved back to 29 3/4 and shallowed up the fin about 1/4 to 1/2 turn of the set screws. That made for a "nice" ride. Nothing to get super excited about, but nice. Symmetrical, a little smear into good angle. Next I'll shallow up some more to see how smeary it gets. Just 28s and 32s so far.
    "...all of the basic fun banter"
    chris55
  • SkiJaySkiJay Posts: 2,314 Mega Baller
    @jimbrake, You're doing the right things for the right reasons. The goal with seeing how smeary it will get is to settle on something that feels (and looks on video) dependable and supportive most of the time. If/when you dunk more tip into the water than intended, there should be some over-smear into a little too much angle, but not enough to end your pass. A setup like this allows you to drive a lot of tip into the water to smear a really tight turn when scrambling—without spinning out. If you often get a slippery feeling at the end of turns with only moderate scrambling, add fin area.
    www.FinWhispering.com ... Your ski should be your dance partner, not a wrestling opponent
    jimbrake
  • blockblock Posts: 171 Baller
    I need a bit of advice. I am on a 67” Senate Pro Build. I started with the #’s on the the web site and the ski felt loose. Binding Foward 3/8” , school bus turns. I went several turns ccw on the FD and several Cw moving FL foward. The ski is getting close but, I’m having a hard time getting good starts. When I pull out and get as far on my front foot (LFF)as I can, the ski will not slow down and I lose the line. I feel very little tip pressure.
    What is my next step?
    John Seiler
  • SkiJaySkiJay Posts: 2,314 Mega Baller
    edited May 16
    JMac very graciously agreed to let me post this video of his first set on the WhisperFin. It's 39 off (10.75 m) at 36 mph, after some winter time off, on the generic WhisperFin setup. I'd like to point out two things in particular. Note how far up the tip the water-break is indicating good solid front foot pressure. And check out the smile at the end of the pass.

    Jason McClintock on the WhisperFin
    www.FinWhispering.com ... Your ski should be your dance partner, not a wrestling opponent
    skibugDanEJordanballsohard
  • kckc Posts: 127 Baller
    @SkiJay JMac’s sister sure looked impressive at The Swiss Pro with her’s!
    SkiJayballsohard
  • JASJAS Posts: 246 Solid Baller
    Great skiing. Is that a jump in tournament score for Whitney?
  • DangerBoyDangerBoy Posts: 275 Solid Baller
    @Skijay, you can see he's got tons of tip pressure on both sides if you freeze the video as he rounds the 5 and 6 balls at about 18 and 20 seconds. No wheelies happening there!
    I can take anything apart
  • ozskiozski Posts: 1,648
    Ski went vertical on 1 - 3 - 5 @SkiJay would be interesting to know how you tuned this out?
    'Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better.'' Boat 2005 Nautique 196 6L ZO - Ski - KD Platinum

  • DangerBoyDangerBoy Posts: 275 Solid Baller
    edited May 17
    @ozski @Drago @Bruce_Butterfield @Sprayblaster Pardon my untrained eye but these frame captures show exactly what I was looking at on Ball 5 and Ball 6. This is what I was referring to when I said there appears to be a lot of tip pressure as he rounds the turn at those balls. What I see there is the tip being quite low and the water breaking just below the tip. Do you not see that too? Is that not what @SkiJay said to look for in the video? Please educate me if I'm wrong.

    Ball 5



    Ball 6



    I can take anything apart
  • SkierxSkierx Posts: 25 Baller
    @DangerBoy agreed, ski looks good at that point. Everyone was referring to the exit off the ball . The point where the tip would raise up momentarily and then he would reset the angle and go.
    mcskier41
  • Ed_JohnsonEd_Johnson Posts: 2,049
    edited May 17
    Update: After 8 sets now on the WF I have learned a lot about it. The greatest attribute is the fact I can dial in the amount of SMEAR I want coming off the apex. Their seems to be a direct correlation between DFT and Smear. Depth initially was 2.530. I kept decreasing it by .010, and settled on 2.500 for now, and have been playing a lot with DFT, which seems to be the most sensitive. I found the range to be from 1.960 to 1.980. 60 was super stable, but going any where past 80, sent me on a survival ride. I now know for me that is the limit. I feel the magic number is 1.970, which gives you very easy controllable smear, with little effort, setting great angle, while accelerating off the ball.

    Have not cut to 35 yet because I want to totally dial it in at 28 and 32 to have complete faith as to what it is going to do. Suspect for 35 and 38, going forward to 1.975 will be the bomb.

    Bottom line being that you can comfortably keep going forward to increase performance, which you will definitely feel. You will KNOW when you have gone to far, believe me !!!!

    I am hoping some others using calipers, will post some numbers on here so we can get a consensus as to what is working and not working. Just saying I turned it 1/4 this way doesn't tell you much since there is no reference as to where you started and finished and what that did for you. For instance, I found my DFT range to be .020, with large performance differences, just in that short of range. Thanks !!!

    Loving the new ZO Rev. S Plus Mode C3+
    ballsohard
  • DangerBoyDangerBoy Posts: 275 Solid Baller
    edited May 17
    Here's another thing @SkiJay said to look for in the video. It's hard to catch 'cause the resolution's only good enough to see it in one or two frames. You have to zoom in a lot and go through that part of the video frame by frame even just to glimpse it but I think you can see what I'm looking at pretty clearly in the screen cap below. Do you see it?

    Exit Gate Frame Grab Zoom


    I can take anything apart
    SkierxSkiJayballsohardAndre
  • C5QuestC5Quest Posts: 241 Baller
    Anyone have experience with the WF on a 66 Vapor Pro? Seems everyone here is on a 67. I finally got around to getting a couple sets this week. My pull and space on the gates and ability to not drift in prior to gates is great. This thing is loud! It literally howls when I pull for the gates. Super stable running the easy set up numbers...3 lines showing for FD, DFT 1 7/8s as instructed, Bf at 29 5/8s.
    On side ok. Speed across the wakes is awesome. Just starting out with -15/22s at 34 mph. I few sets getting so early to the ball I had to time to sip on cappuccino 😂. Off side hasn’t been great. Getting so much speed and angle I’m getting pulled out of position off the second wake and giving space up to the boat. My own bad technique. Settings on website are close to suggested on the set up card except bump Bf to 29 3/4. Will try this next and add a touch of DFT and shallow Up FD to match WF website settings. Am I in for a wild ride with these adjustments?
  • DragoDrago Posts: 1,482 Mega Baller
    @DangerBoy yep, low tip until it had to relieve the pressure somehow.
    SR SL Judge & Driver (“a driver who is super late on the wheel and is out of sync”)
    Than_Boganballsohard
  • paul413skipaul413ski Posts: 146 Baller
    @Ed_Johnson went on the same journey as you dtf at 1.960 was a hold on survival lesson went back to 1.930 and feels more stable and under control 69.5 vapor will reduce depth on next set to induce more smear
  • Ed_JohnsonEd_Johnson Posts: 2,049
    @paul413ski .... Thank you for sharing that. Now that I zeroed in on DFT, my next step was to shallow the fin some more. My stock setting on the Website that I started at was 2.530. That immediately felt to deep, so I have been, for some time at 2.500 Right and 2.468 Left side. Adding the washers to the Left side really helped the onside turn.

    Let me know how it works for you and what your results are. I will start next week shallowing mine in small increments every set. THX

    Loving the new ZO Rev. S Plus Mode C3+
  • SkiJaySkiJay Posts: 2,314 Mega Baller
    Hi @block, If 3/8" forward made the ski turn like a bus, it's too much. If you have Mikro-Just, move back 1/4". If you can't move your bindings in small increments, then move the bindings back to where you started and use fin area to settle the tail down. And you shouldn't need to make "several turns" of the adjustment screws. A 1/4 turn is about .010".

    At this point, you may want to record where you are, then reset the fin to the generic setup to see how you like it now that you're more up to speed in the season. You can then tune from there again if necessary. If you're really happy with how the ski is behaving now, disregard this whole post. I may be misinterpreting your explanation.
    www.FinWhispering.com ... Your ski should be your dance partner, not a wrestling opponent
  • SkiJaySkiJay Posts: 2,314 Mega Baller
    edited May 19
    DFT Insights

    @paul413ski & @Ed_Johnson, Thank you for sharing your experience with this simplified tuning method here. I'd like to expand on how DFT affects these setups.

    Since this method is guided by using the index marks to keep the fin "level" to orient the teeth with the water flow during acceleration, there are no LE-neutral DFT adjustments. All DFT changes move the fin's leading edge location (LE). So two ski behaviours change with each adjustment, yawning tip engagement and smear.

    Of the two behaviours, yawed tip engagement is most affected. The further forward LE moves, the more yawning tip engagement we get from our habitual skiing inputs—all good for increased speed and power until we've gone too far and the tip starts grabbing.

    But as DFT gets longer, smear also increases. So while the tip is getting more bite, the tail is also loosing some grip. This loss of tail support further increases exposure to tip-grab.

    Because of this dual behavioural effect, the search for the longest LE our technique can use will also need a little more fin area to control the increasing smear. Fortunately, FD changes affect smear over six times more than DFT changes do.

    So as you zero in on your max LE with DFT adjustments, you may want to throw in a few small LE-neutral fin area adjustments, where you reduce DFT by the same amount as your increase to fin area for a slight LE reduction (e.g. an increase of a 1/8 turn to fin area (FD & FL) would be accompanied by a 1/8 turn decrease in DFT).
    www.FinWhispering.com ... Your ski should be your dance partner, not a wrestling opponent
    DavidNEd_Johnson
  • paul413skipaul413ski Posts: 146 Baller
    Hi guys reluctantly let my ski buddy use the fin on the stock out of the box settings mid 38 skier first set on the fin he ran 38 @SkiJay new order on the way asap 👍👍
    SkiJayJordanThan_Bogan
  • paul413skipaul413ski Posts: 146 Baller
    Further fin ordered for my ski buddy
  • SkiJaySkiJay Posts: 2,314 Mega Baller
    Hahaha! 😂
    When your fin order came through with your name on it, @paul413ski, I figured your buddy refused to give your fin back. That's happened a couple of times now. Thanks for letting him try it 👍🏼
    www.FinWhispering.com ... Your ski should be your dance partner, not a wrestling opponent
  • paul413skipaul413ski Posts: 146 Baller
    Cold dead hands it’s back on the Vapor already 😂😂
  • paul413skipaul413ski Posts: 146 Baller
    Have to keep the lake owner happy
    SkiJay
  • SkiJaySkiJay Posts: 2,314 Mega Baller
    edited May 19
    www.FinWhispering.com ... Your ski should be your dance partner, not a wrestling opponent
    ScottScottballsohard
  • DangerBoyDangerBoy Posts: 275 Solid Baller
    edited May 20
    Wow, that's an astonishing result @SkiJay! No wonder she's absolutely beaming and grinning from ear to ear. Way to go Sophie! 👍🏼

    Watch out Regina Jacquess, it won't be long before Sophie's gonna be comin' after ya! :p
    I can take anything apart
  • paul413skipaul413ski Posts: 146 Baller
    That’s the whisper fin
  • blockblock Posts: 171 Baller
    Thanks @ SkiJay. I did get the pressure I was needing. I miss spoke using turns to describe what I was doing. Turns = 1/8 to 1/4 turn. I moved my binding just a bit more foward , gates were magical. The water is breaking at my front boot toes. I have very little smear. I’m still running 28’s and 32’s we’ll see as I move to 35’s.
    John Seiler
    SkiJaychris55
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