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The Promo Boat Paradigm has to change

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Comments

  • ALPJrALPJr Posts: 2,348 Mega Baller
    This thread makes me miss Hammers and SkiWorlds boats at Berkeley.
  • 6_Buoys6_Buoys Posts: 35 Baller
    @dave2ball once again I agree with you, the skier will pay in the end. I think we all agree that the "promo" days are over or close to over and the skiers that want the newest boats at the tournaments they attend will have to pay up. The other issues you and some others have stated are the current or historical problems (selling the boat before season is over, boat hours, etc). That is why I am proposing a wholesale change to the program. Dealers that want to be involved, a centralized fee, equal distribution and access of the boats, manufacturer involvement. No more promo "owners" that need to move a boat. Boats that are put on the market by the manufacturer to be fully utilized at tournaments (hrs be damned). You wouldn't need so many boats at the big tournaments if you didn't have to juggle them around to spread the hours out, just run a boat all day. @Horton you are correct, if we simply try to tweak the current system my plan is overly burdensome compared to just paying the promo owner. I was throwing out there a more in depth change to the current "promo" system. As you and others much more knowledgeable than I have said, change is coming. Is it going to happen to us or with us?
  • HortonHorton Posts: 29,993 Administrator
    edited November 2020
    @6_Buoys A few obstacles

    First of all VERY few dealers want to be involved.

    When the dealer owns the boat they ( at some point ) have to pay flooring ( bank interest ) $400 - $600 per month +/-. Like car dealerships boat dealers finance inventory. It adds up fast.

    My $50 per engine hour depreciation number assumes that somebody is looking after these boats like it is their child. If these boats are to get a lot of hours who is going to prevent every little scratch? Go back 20 years when promo boats were dime a dozen the boats were sometimes taken for granted and honestly a lot of them were abused. Somebody has to pay for every dollar depreciation one way or another.

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  • dave2balldave2ball Posts: 781 Crazy Baller
    edited November 2020
    @bishop8950 this is your quote. like the idea of looser requirements for Class C and perhaps a smaller boat cost contribution to the tournament. I am also happy to pay more for a record using newer boats.
    Why should you pay less to the boat owner for a C? The cost per hour does not changed or C ‘s. If an older boat is used then you have the option not to ski. Price per hour should be the same regardless of a C ELR or boat used.
    BG1ALPJr
  • dave2balldave2ball Posts: 781 Crazy Baller
    @bishop8950 i do agree the depreciation is different for a 21 VS an 09 but once you pay a certain amount for a boat a president may have already be set in may owners eyes who agree to use there boats.
    ALPJr
  • HortonHorton Posts: 29,993 Administrator
    @bishop8950 I think if we pay all boat owners the same amount that guy that owns the old boat can put money in the bank towards that new engine he's going to need eventually or whatever.

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  • jayskijayski Posts: 980 Mega Baller
    The theory to pay equally regardless of boat year is fine but it will eventually mean you're going to NEVER see a new boat at a tournament. (Personally I think it panda worthy)

    Why would I take my brand new 2021 $135,000 Ski Nautique to a tournament when Johnny's 2017 MC gets the same pay rate? Eventually these folks (with the new boats) will not bother bringing their new tug, welcome to tow boat socialism lol
  • RichardDoaneRichardDoane Posts: 4,521 Mega Baller
    Some people like @Not_The_Pug like to be the promo boat owner. I know that I did with MC back in those years. Having people ski well behind your boat and appreciate it’s presence at the event is a powerful thing. Only looking at the $$$$ is a short sided view.
    BallOfSpray Pacific Northwest Vice President of Event Management, aka "Zappy"
    Not_The_Pugrico
  • dave2balldave2ball Posts: 781 Crazy Baller
    edited November 2020
    Outside of Nautique whose team members do not own the boat so they should not take such a hit for recouping cost we are only talking about MC and Malibu. If the LOC compensates Nautique members that is just a bonus for them. Promo members are required to bring there boats to a certain amount to tournaments per there contract. The additional money will help the promo member ease the burden.
    When we talk about a private boat owner bring his boat to an event there is no reason they should not be given the same amount of money per hour use.
    As to @jayski post I really don’t know too many people who will give there 21 SN or MC to pull an event with out being on a promo team. I’m not saying it won’t happen but very small percentage.
    ALPJr
  • HortonHorton Posts: 29,993 Administrator
    @dave2ball I was under the understanding that with the current nantique program the promo guys were actually paying a lease payment on the boat. maybe that's a regional thing and I don't know maybe that was just a thing a couple years ago

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  • ski6jonesski6jones Posts: 1,102 Mega Baller
    edited November 2020
    Does anybody know what further changes the big 3 are planning WRT their promo programs, like over the next 5 yrs? I think helping the promo or private boat owners is a good idea. However this might be just the excuse the mfgs need to further pull back their programs. It might be good to know their plans so what we do is complementary if pissible.
    Carl Addington, Lakes of Katy, Texas
    dave2ballunksskis
  • skierjpskierjp Posts: 924 Crazy Baller
    edited November 2020
    @Horton Nautique Team Members have the same program across the country.
  • dave2balldave2ball Posts: 781 Crazy Baller
    @Horton yes they are paying a lease. But they have much less invested. The biggest thing is nautique boats go back to a dealer to sell. A Nautique promo person will not take a huge hit at the end of the year as far as recouping cost. Anything to help with the additional gas insurance so forth is alway appreciated. They should not be excluded. My bad for not clarifying in my earlier post.
    ALPJrMattP
  • dave2balldave2ball Posts: 781 Crazy Baller
    @BlueSki that is great to hear. Would not be a bad idea to shoot the MFGs an email stating that
    BlueSki
  • BlueSkiBlueSki Posts: 831 Mega Baller
    @dave2ball, you are absolutely right. I will. We almost didn’t have a Nautique at our state tournament, but one of the women skiers made a call and Nautique got a boat there. There were some insurance hassles, but it got done. They need to hear from us.
    ALPJr
  • GolfguyGolfguy Posts: 243 Solid Baller
    The take away from this conversation, in summary, is that the boat owner should be paid a per hour compensatory rate ($50/hr) for use in a tournament. I'm going to run with that Idea in my 2021 tournaments. Notice I am going to stop using the word promo.
    Jody_SealHorton
  • skierjpskierjp Posts: 924 Crazy Baller
    @BlueSki what state do live in?
  • GolfguyGolfguy Posts: 243 Solid Baller
    Arizona
  • BlueSkiBlueSki Posts: 831 Mega Baller
    Ohio
  • unksskisunksskis Posts: 537 Crazy Baller
    As @bishop8950 put very well, it's great to have club or private boats used in our local tournaments, but that limits the open-ness of the tournament to anyone outside of the club/property owners. Our tournaments will only "fill up" faster, and overall numbers reduced to keep personal boat hours and liability down.

    As a jumper, I think we're even higher maintenance when it comes to boats at tournaments. Engine size, ZeroOff Rev, dual puck vs single, etc all factor into desire, interest, and comfort level of attending a tournament. The lack of promos and shift to personal boats at tournaments will continue the hinderance of jump access and growth.
    dbutcherbishop8950
  • ricorico Posts: 310 Crazy Baller
    I agree with @RichardDoane The reality is that most people organising tournaments are doing it for the love of the sport and community. I helped at tournaments in Florida and California over the past 10 years. 99% of the LOC are not doing it for the money or for breaking even. I put up a tournament at our lake this year and there is no profit, a lot of work, some stress but a lot of fun with friends and other skiers.
    Sorry to be blunt but the reality is promo boat owners also use their promo boat to ski all year long and It's not just a service to the tournament community. There are less and less promo people and a lot of people that would like to do promo and have no spots. The problem is not with not having people wanting to do promo but not enough boats available for promo teams.
    I am happy to pay more as long as the system is the same for all tournaments (hourly rate for boat use and rate per miles for towing to a tournament), but it is a vicious circle of offer and demand. LOC need skiers, skier need boats and officials, skiers need LOC to put up tournaments...
    Eric Francois - Studio City, CA - Denali C-75 - Reflex
    RichardDoaneHortonALPJrBdecker
  • dave2balldave2ball Posts: 781 Crazy Baller
    Rico say it best. It seems like the MFG’s feel they are not enough return on the invest put into 3 event skiing.
  • HortonHorton Posts: 29,993 Administrator
    @dave2ball let's be honest and play it straight. There is not very much return on investment providing boats to the competitive tournament world. It is even more evident at this moment because boats from all three brands are more or less sold out. If the factories can't make them fast enough why would they discount them?

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  • dave2balldave2ball Posts: 781 Crazy Baller
    @Horton now a days i don’t disagree with you. They are doing the bare minimum to reach the 20% required by AWSA for required for national qualification
  • skierjpskierjp Posts: 924 Crazy Baller
    LOL, not even for a free entry!
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