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The Big Dawg is Flawed

CWhiteCWhite Posts: 6
edited July 2012 in Rules/Politics/Issues
I had the opportunity to ski in the Big Dawg at Abbotsford this past weekend. I think it is safe to say that of the 28 or 29 skiers who signed up, I was the only one who was over 200 pounds. Watching some of those guys who weigh a buck-fifty run 38 and 39 just doesn’t seem fair. Todd Kuykendall ran a 39 in round 2 that was crazy. If I tried stuff like that I would either rip my arms from the sockets, rip the pylon from the boat, break the rope, break the handle or break the ski in half (I have done the last four). It just isn’t fair. I am 6’3”, 205 pounds. I worked out like crazy this last offseason and dropped about 20 pounds but it still isn’t enough , I think I still need to lose another 10-15 pounds to have any hope of competing with these guys. I mean have you seen Dave Miller? Most eight graders weigh more than him!

I have thought long and hard about this and I think the only way to address this inequity is to approach it in the same manner that they do in horse racing where they make all of the horses carry the same weight. It would be quite easy to do, simply establish a baseline weight that every skier must weigh (my vote would be for 190 pounds) and if a skier is under that weight they must carry extra weight. This would level the playing field. If Dave Goode can design the Bubble Buoys and the Power Vest I am sure he can design a vest that can be fitted with weights. I would like to see Dave Miller run 39 wearing a 40 pound vest*.

I am writing this on behalf of all of the other 200 pound plus skiers out there, please take up the cause and contact Greg Davis and support this idea.

All kidding aside, the Big Dawg was a great event. All of the skiers I met are great guys and amazing skiers who deserve every buoy they get.

*He probably could


  • eleeskieleeski Posts: 3,975 Infinite Pandas
    There's a Vonnegut short story along those lines. The Board of Equalization handicaps everyone.

    Wait, doesn't the Board of Equalization collect our taxes in CA?!!

  • skiboynyskiboyny Posts: 248 Baller
    It's strength to weight ratio. You have the potential to be stronger at 200 lbs. You need to look at your body fat. If your 200 lbs at 10% body fat you would be very strong and you would need that kind of strength to compete with a 150lb guy who's body fat is 10 %. It's not so much loosing weight it's more gaining strength. (muscle) Using this recipe we are all on even ground. And of course I could be all wrong!
  • SkihackSkihack Posts: 448 Baller
    We were just talking about the Pro Skiers' height and weight just the other day at the ski club. Today, most of the pros with the exception of a few are incredibly light. Wasn't the case in the old days. I have wondered why today the pro skiers are lighter. You still need height. I wouldn't advise a weighted vest, good way to drown. Like they have in running events, maybe they should have a Clydesdale division where all the contestants are at least 215 pounds. I can tell you from experience, that at 215 I ski three passes better than at 250, so here we go with inequitity even at the top weights. I believe a Clydesdale division would be good for the sport.
  • MAD11MAD11 Posts: 578 Crazy Baller
    Tell Zero Off that before a big strong guy skis and see if it agrees.
  • Chef23Chef23 Posts: 6,038 Mega Baller
    It seems that Parrish is the exception at the elite ranks. I am sure his strength to weight ratio is very high but he is a big guy and I would imagine is the heaviest of the top skiers.
    Mark Shaffer
  • ForrestGumpForrestGump Posts: 6,117
    Austin Abel makes CP look small.
    Shane "Crash" Hill

  • liquid dliquid d Posts: 1,255 Mega Baller
    only way to be heavy these days is be really tall.... The difference gets multiplied under load. The older systems didn't act like a freight train pulling you. The big skier/heavier skier could slow the boat down more and have the slingshot effect to get wide at next bouy---it wasn't a huge disadvantage. It is now.
  • MattPMattP Posts: 6,180 Mega Baller
    Aaron Larkin is a built guy.
  • liquid dliquid d Posts: 1,255 Mega Baller
    I would suggest the biggest ski you think you could handle...and then go one bigger.
  • klindyklindy Posts: 2,489 ★★★Triple Panda Award Recipient ★★★
    OK if the consensus is that ZO is a disadvantage for a bigger guy, what is the preferred settings to minimize the issue? What else can be done to make things less disadvantageous?
    Keith Lindemulder
    AWSA Chairman of the Board
    AWSA Southern Region EVP
  • A_BA_B Posts: 4,262 Mega Baller
    ZO needs a F setting. :)

    I have played with ZO settings at 250lbs and find C2 gets me earlier into the ball.
  • MAD11MAD11 Posts: 578 Crazy Baller
    FAT Setting = C
    Also, seems more dramatic for bigger guys at 34 than 36 since you tend to get deeper there. Even skiing 35mph in practice I like B better, but seem to migrate back to C (FAT) at 34. Trying to fix the real issue now, but never that easy. Especially when I only ski every 3 weeks.
  • The_MSThe_MS Posts: 5,712 Member of the BallOfSpray Hall Of Fame
    How about we just have Andy release the setting that all of the test skiers liked at the ZO testing?
    Shut up and ski
  • 35 in the bag35 in the bag Posts: 76 Baller
    C1 in my opinion. You want to minimize the speed variance (overall speed delta) as much as possible. If you think about it, that's basically what a very light individual does. They "hide" from Zero Off better because of the lighter load.

    C1 engages the soonest (less negative speed delta to initiate) and with the strongest power response over the shortest duration therefore keeping the steadiest speed.

    A3 on the other hand is the opposite.

    John M
    I used to think that ski tuning might be more complicated than Rocket Science.........
    Now I know it is..
  • SkiJaySkiJay Posts: 2,314 Mega Baller
    Would equalization mean Chet Raley would have to ski with both a weight vest AND on stilts? ... Your ski should be your dance partner, not a wrestling opponent
  • eleeskieleeski Posts: 3,975 Infinite Pandas
    Isn't the ventral fin like a hydrofoil - that's Chet's version of stilts!

    Do I need extra weights because my skis are so light?

  • MLML Posts: 11
    Just a question, if we are going to add weight to guys that only weight 155 pounds like I do are we also going to give the short guys me (5'6" on a good day) extra line? I am no where near Cwhite's level( 28 off guy at best)and if he can compete at a Big Dawg then congrats on even being at that level. But the reason the top level guys are the way they are is because they are committed. My ski partner and I just had this conversation. The Big Dawg top guys are willing to put in more work and fully commit to winning. That means diet, training, living someplace where you can ski year round, and not letting anything stand in the way of that success. My ski partner has a freind that has done that exact thing and his results are showing it. Its like any sport, the top 1% are willing to do what everyone else isnt. And for the record even at 5'6" and 155, zero off isnt really my freind. Not exaclty a light on the line skier, but thats my deal not the boats.

  • CWhiteCWhite Posts: 6
    Even though Dave Miller beats me by more than a pass, my spray is way bigger than his which at the end of the day is what impresses all the non-skiers who were on the beach.
  • eleeskieleeski Posts: 3,975 Infinite Pandas
    So what ZO setting makes the biggest spray?
  • CWhiteCWhite Posts: 6
    Forget Zero Off, if you want a good spray go old school and go with the hand throttle and a driver that will juice it right at the ball! ML is right, those top guys are committed and as I said they deserve every buoy they get. I would gladly give the shorter guys extra rope as a trade off for the added weight.
  • ski6jonesski6jones Posts: 1,082 Mega Baller
    This reminds me of discussions about equalizing the playing field due to differences in height.

    If it's true that the heavier guys are also generally a bit taller then perhaps the two offset.

    Big guys - Higher load and more response from ZO, but better reach,

    Smaller guys - Lower load and less response from ZO, but less reach.
    Carl Addington, Lakes of Katy, Texas
  • JoeMacJoeMac Posts: 47 Baller
    Instead of Big dawg, have toy poodle division, clydesdale division, and for the really big guys a Rhino division.
  • dave2balldave2ball Posts: 717 Crazy Baller
    REALLY . Now I think I have heard everything as far as skiing goes. Why don't we just handicap the big dawg also.
  • Than_BoganThan_Bogan Posts: 6,725 Mega Baller
    Either I'm not getting the re-sarcasm here, or a lot of folks have missed that the Original Post is a joke.

    This is particularly true of whomever Disliked it. (Well, I suppose that person could dislike humor...)
    Nathaniel Bogan -- GUT Padawan
  • Ed_JohnsonEd_Johnson Posts: 2,217
    I just keep hoping for an "Old Dawg" division !!!!
    Special Thanks to Performance Ski and Surf and the Denali Adam's !!!
  • Than_BoganThan_Bogan Posts: 6,725 Mega Baller
    I did like "skinny dawg" -- pretty tempted to change my user name to SkinnyDawg except I'm not really good enough for that monicker.
    Nathaniel Bogan -- GUT Padawan
  • WishWish Posts: 8,092 ★★★Triple Panda Award Recipient ★★★
    I've seen some skiers that would fit into the "girly" Dawg division.
    >>> 11.25..a different kettle of fish. <<<
  • sixballsixball Posts: 276 Baller
    What handicap do I get, fat old decrepit knees and hips and don't ski for $hi#????????????????????????????????
  • KlundellKlundell Posts: 432 Open or Level 9 Skier
    I agree with @skiboyny its all about strength to weight ratio. We have a MM skier in UT Bryce Tolman who has to be over 200lbs he is built like a truck. He does stuff on a waterski that I simply don't have the strength to do (I actually spent all winter trying to gain 7-8lbs because I thought my strength to weight ratio would go up) I think its paying off I'm skiing better than last year. If you can do 40 pull ups it doesn't matter how big you are you will be strong on a waterski. Not that I wouldn't like trying to ski with a 40lb weighted vest on sounds kinda fun. ha ha ha.
  • skiboat38skiboat38 Posts: 129 Baller
    Eric Kelly who placed 4th is over easily over 200
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